The Great Resignation is in full swing, with employees across industries reevaluating their priorities and often leaving their jobs for more meaningful work at companies that invest in and support their professional development. In this episode of The Business of Learning, we spoke with Joe Scarfone, a global learning and development consultant at Lenovo, and Megan Joecks, director of talent, culture and organizational effectiveness at Charter Steel, to learn more on:
- How to create a learning culture in your organization.
- How to build company culture online.
- The impact of company culture on the bottom line.
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Additional Resources:
- Certification: The Certified Professional in Training Management (CPTM™) Program
- Infographic: Training’s Role in Building Company Culture: 3 Tips for Success
- Article: “4 Ways to Build a Culture of Learning“
- Article: “Connection is the Secret Sauce for a Thriving Hybrid Work Culture“
Interested in learning more about the The Certified Professional in Training Management (CPTM™) Program? Download the program brochure below.
The transcript for this episode follows:
Speaker 1:
Welcome to The Business of Learning, the learning leader’s podcast from Training Industry.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
Hi there, welcome back to The Business of Learning. I’m Michelle Eggleston Schwartz, editorial director at Training Industry.
Sarah Gallo:
And I’m Sarah Gallo, a senior editor. Today’s episode of The Business of Learning is brought to us by the Certified Professional and Training Management program.
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Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
As we record this episode, The Great Resignation is in full swing with employees across industries reevaluating their priorities and often leaving their jobs for more meaningful work at companies that invest in and support their development. But the desire for professional development isn’t new. In fact, one report released in 2020, which we’ll link to in the show notes, found that for the 10th consecutive year, a lack of career development is the number one reason why employees quit their jobs. To learn how training can help build a strong company culture rooted in learning and growth, we’re speaking with Joe Scarfone, a global learning and development consultant at Lenovo, and Megan Joecks, director of talent, culture, and organizational effectiveness at Charter Steel. Megan, Joe, welcome to the podcast.
Megan Joecks:
Thank you. Happy to be here.
Joe Scarfone:
Thanks so much for having us.
Sarah Gallo:
To kick things off, why don’t you both define company culture for us. Megan, let’s start with you.
Megan Joecks:
Great. I think there’s definitions about culture all over the place. I think it really just boils down to it’s how we get things done in our organization. Culture is shared beliefs, shared values that an entire organization holds that ultimately shapes how we behave and how we show up. It is defined, it is communicated, it should be rewarded, and it’s modeled and reinforced by our leadership of any organization through actions and stories that they tell.
Sarah Gallo:
That’s great. I love that. What about you, Joe? How do you define company culture?
Joe Scarfone:
Yeah, everything that Megan said and along with I think it’s also the way that we feel at work and the way that we feel at our organizations. I think a lot of times, we really focus on the how we get work done. Even at Lenovo, we’ve got a company culture, the culture statement, just like every other organization does, but I really think it comes down to the difference is how we feel doing it and how we feel being a part of the team, the people, and the organization overall.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
Great. I really like that. How you feel at work because oftentimes that kind of is not the first thing that comes to mind in the morning. It’s I’m checking off my to-do list. That’s my focus. And so, yeah, that’s really well said, Joe. Now that we’re all on the same page in terms of what company culture is, how can training help build a strong and positive company culture? Joe, why don’t you start us off?
Joe Scarfone:
Yeah, I think that something that we need to think about too with like L&D functions is that so much of what we do is about skills and empowering people through learning those skills, but I think that L&D teams and training teams in general can really start to serve more as a thought leadership center for the organizations. The things that we bring in can really drive the way that the people operate and think, it can drive what the organization stands for, and it can really have an impact on the way that things are done and the way that, again, going back to how we feel. And I think that that has a major impact. On top of that, obviously, yes, the skills that we empower our people with is critically important to help make sure that the company is operating strongly and that people feel good and feel like they’re being invested there. And I think that the skills are going to be shifting a little bit now, the ones that we focus on versus where we were pre-COVID and now where we’re going.
Megan Joecks:
Yeah, I’ll add on top of that. I think every employee touchpoint is an opportunity for us to reinforce our organizational culture, whether that is around values or behaviors. And I would say any work that the learning and development team does or any communication check-ins, any one-on-ones with leaders, that’s no different. So whether it’s by modeling the right behaviors or by reinforcing them and anything formal or informal that we’re supporting across the organization, every touchpoint is an opportunity to really reinforce and drive home that company culture and those values.
Sarah Gallo:
Yeah, that’s great. I guess I love what you mentioned Joe, about every company, like you said, often has one of those culture statements or a mission statement, but really kind of how do we take that mission statement from going on the page to in action in employees’ everyday roles? I’d love if maybe you both could talk a little bit about how you’ve done that in your organization and really brought that culture to life. Megan, do you want to start us off since culture is even part of your job title?
Megan Joecks:
Yeah, of course. I think the important thing to think about is for us in L&D is that we don’t do it alone. It’s not an L&D thing or an HR initiative. We can help to create demand and create the conversation by getting out with our business leaders, helping them to identify maybe challenges that they’re experiencing and help leaders understand how enhancing the culture or how development experiences can help them to solve those problems. So I would first off by say it’s not something we should own and do on our own. We need to really make sure we’re building those partnerships across boundaries and across silos with the organization, busting those silos if they exist to create a consistent culture, if you will and not one of microcultures everywhere you go.
Joe Scarfone:
Yeah. And I love that point in terms of trying to bust those silos. I know that it’s one of the things that we always hear about in our training classes is the fact of trying to break them down and to really unify what the vision is and the culture is across the board. I think another part of it too is when we’re picking contents and we’re trying to figure out how to formulate our training programs, really focusing in on what those cultural tenants are and offer programs that match it. So for example, at Lenovo, one of our key cultural priorities is innovation, right? We want to be a very innovative company, both in terms of the products that we’re creating, but also internal processes. So one of our major leadership development programs that we have is around innovation. And it’s a model that is about how to actually be innovative on your teams, inspire innovation from the brainstorming stage through implementation through sharing learnings afterwards. So I think that that’s something is making sure to match the programming to what the cultural priorities are of your organization.
Megan Joecks:
Totally agree. At Charter Steel, we do something very similarly. Being in heavy manufacturing, one of our top priorities from a cultural perspective, as well as organizational safety. So we talk about safety in every opportunity that we can and we do it from a compliance perspective. It’s a cultural tenant of ours. We not only will have content in learning programs around it, but you’ll see stories that are shared through our internal communication channels. We will reinforce and reward good safety behaviors. So threading those… First of all, really clearly defining what are those cultural behaviors and then threading them through multiple touchpoints can really take the words off the wall and bring your culture to life.
Sarah Gallo:
That’s great. You mentioned earlier, Megan, about some of those barriers and kind of getting out of those silos when building company culture. Could you touch a little bit more on what some of the challenges are for our listeners who may be looking to build company culture? And do you have any advice for how they can overcome those [challenges]?
Megan Joecks:
I would say the challenges are very much business specific. So some organizations and probably many will find that busting silos and getting people to think maybe holistically can be a really significant challenge. One tactic that I’ve leveraged in the past is to find your champions. Just like any change, find your advocates, find your champions, find those key influencers at the senior most levels of the organization that can help to carry your message forward even when you’re not there. Build those relationships and foster those partnerships and that conversation will happen, whether you’re in the room or not.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
That’s such a great point to really find those partners who can advocate and really champion learning for the organization. That’s so important. So switching gears a little bit, I think it’s important to note that while building company culture can seem a little more fun than let’s say measuring ROI or budgeting, it still poses its own challenges. And as we’ve seen from the pandemic, we know that L&D has had to adapt to this new normal and new way of working and learning and life. Can you kind of speak to how can training help build a resilient company culture that thrives in the face of change?
Joe Scarfone:
I think that making sure to stay ahead of the curve of what the skills are that are going to be needed in the future of work is something that can definitely help with that. And really talking to the people inside the organization of what the key needs are. What are they seeing that they’re suffering with? What are some of those points that we may not see in the L&D function that can help them become stronger with the way things are, again, progressing? We know that the organizations around the industry are changing dramatically now with the impact of COVID, the impact of The Great Resignation. Resiliency is going to look very, very different I think for every organization in the future.
Megan Joecks:
And every person within that organization. And the resiliency muscle needs to be built differently for different people. And so I don’t think a peanut butter approach necessarily will work when you’re trying to build that muscle in different companies, different functions, different teams. But I think first and foremost, I think I mentioned this earlier, we need to lead by example. And when we show up in that resilient way, whether that was shifting to virtual learning when everything we used to do is in-person, shifting content to support the new normal, we just need to make sure that we’re staying relevant, both in format, as well as content. And I think just showing our resiliency and our ability to handle some of these changes and transitions also help our business leaders see the same thing.
Joe Scarfone:
And I just want to echo that. Absolutely. I think that peanut butter approach is not going to work and leading by example is key. When COVID hit, we all had to make those major shifts. Especially in the learning and development realm, I feel like it advanced us five to 10 years into the future in just a matter of months with how quickly we had to adapt and change. And I think that like you mentioned Megan, people seeing us do that as a function helps to really motivate others to be as resilient and finding ways to do so.
Megan Joecks:
And I also found a lot of success through the significant transitions and changes that we’ve all experienced is really helping, whether it’s formal training participants or leaders to self-reflect on their experiences. What did you learn? What are you doing differently? And kind of use that as a coaching opportunity to see them into the future.
Sarah Gallo:
Yeah. Great points from both of you. Definitely agree here. I was going to say if anything, a global pandemic showed us the importance of being flexible and agile, but like you said, Joe, it really like forced us to be flexible and agile, whether we liked it or not. Whether it was moving in-person training program online or figuring out how to have a hybrid or Zoom holiday meal with family. Well, we know of course a strong learning culture is important in building that resilience that we’ve all leaned on so much during this disruptive time. Joe and Megan, what tips do you have for our listeners who want to begin creating this learning culture but don’t know where to start?
Megan Joecks:
I think it’s important for us to define what an organization might mean by a learning culture. A culture of learning doesn’t necessarily mean that employees need to take X amount of formal training opportunities provided by the L&D team every year. It really means that employees and leaders adopt a growth mindset. They see growth and learning in every opportunity. So maybe that is a formal training experience, but maybe it’s self-reflection and learning from a project that didn’t go well. I think we as a learning function can help people to understand what learning culture means, how to self-reflect, and really how to learn. That’s an interesting approach to take is to teach people how to learn. And I think we rely on the fact that people know how to do it because we all went to school, but I think relearning how to learn as an adult is really important to a learning culture.
Joe Scarfone:
And to echo that point about not having to be just formal training, people learn in all different ways. I can’t tell you how many things I’ve learned from listening to a podcast like this, reading articles. And I think it’s really providing different resources for learning for our people. And I know that, again, when COVID hit and the transformation everyone had to go through, we provided our teams articles on the transition, we did webinars, we did podcasts. Whatever we could find, we curated contents that normally wouldn’t be part of what people would traditionally think of as a learning program and offered it up to people because we knew that we had to hit different modalities of the way that people would learn. And I think that that’s something that, again, as we go through this transition of what we’re seeing in our field, it’s knowing that sometimes it’s not us as L&D that’s bringing the right content or the right format. It could be anything. And we can take learns from anything that’s out there as well.
Megan Joecks:
But your point about our role is evolving to become more of a curation of relevant and meaningful content that’s out there I think is one to take note of too. We can curate content from anywhere and we can help package it in a way that’s accessible to our employee population or to the leaders that we work with. I personally, part of my role, I oversee internal communications as well. So incorporating this learning culture concept into formal internal communications mediums in addition to L&D, I found a lot of success in that as well.
Sarah Gallo:
That’s great. Yeah, definitely the importance of really delivering that learning in different modalities. We’ve also found through our learner preferences research that’s definitely a priority and that the more modalities you deliver training in, the more likely it’s going to resonate with your learners, which makes sense. And we don’t all learn the same way. While Michelle and I may love podcasts, some of our colleagues may not. And that’s okay. So yeah, that’s definitely something to keep in mind. I’d be interested to hear what does this look like building company culture in a hybrid or virtual environment? Do you have any tips for learning leaders navigating those very real virtual challenges?
Megan Joecks:
For me, I think it happens in the same way that you do it in an in-person culture. We build connections across the enterprise. We use every touchpoint as an opportunity, every conversation, as well as classroom environments, and those just might be virtual. So I think it’s done the same way as you do it in in-person, it’s just your medium might look a little bit different. We still want to create awareness and behavior change. So the goals and how we do it is in my opinion, pretty similar.
Joe Scarfone:
Yeah. And I think another thing to keep in mind too with this is that we are now also going to see more equity in our organizations and people that are able to obtain learning. So for example, where people would normally have had to travel in if we were doing just onsite training and there’s budget constraints and people aren’t able to do it because of the cost attached to it, now with doing virtual training, we get more people that are involved, more people that are able to take part, and even folks that wouldn’t normally talk in a classroom, they’re involved in the chat. So now we’re getting more engagement from our people in ways in this new virtual hybrid model that we wouldn’t have been able to before. And so I think that’s a big thing that’s really going to help expand our footprint as learning and development in these new hybrid formats. I think that anyone who thinks we’re going back to the old ways of being in an office five days a week, everyone coming to onsite training only, that’s not the way that the future’s going to be. And I think the benefit is going to be that we can have so much more reach and impact in that hybrid and virtual state place.
Megan Joecks:
And I would just offer on the hybrid side, being in manufacturing, the majority of our population can’t work remotely. They are here onsite every day. They were here onsite through the pandemic, and they will continue to learn in, I would say, enhanced ways than what they did in the past, but they aren’t going to be dialing into some of these types of experiences working remotely. So their access is very similar. So I think it’s really important for us to note for those who are working in organizations that require onsite employees, that you’ve got to think about it from both lenses. You might have some that are able to have flexible work, some that are not. And how do you build that strategy to accommodate everybody’s situation?
Joe Scarfone:
That’s an excellent point, Megan, because you’re right. There are a lot of industries and even roles inside of specific industries where people have had to be there onsite and you’re right, they’re not able to do the remote work. So that’s why, again, we can’t forget those pieces of in-person, but we can’t also stop doing the virtual and hybrid once things return to whatever normal is in the future.
Megan Joecks:
Right.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
Those are all great points and things to consider on work looks different for everyone. And so figuring out how to get everyone to connect and learn and keep that top of mind. I’ve really liked all the talk about how we really need to adopt a growth mindset and how important that ability to learn and relearn is going to be critical moving forward. I’d like to touch on the business impact of company culture. What is the return on investment of building a strong organizational culture and why should businesses make this a priority moving forward?
Joe Scarfone:
I think first of all, if you have a strong culture and an engaged employee base, they’re going to be a happier employee base, which means that they’re going to do good quality work for you and have strong impact on the customer. So I think that’s the big thing that we need to look at is that engagement piece. On top of that, we are seeing the trends right now of people leaving organizations because they’re not getting what they need, whether that be culture wise, development wise, salary wise, whatever the reason may be. And so everything that we can do as learning leaders to impact the culture and all those pieces positively to retain key talents is going to be incredibly critical for businesses and organizations to look at doing because otherwise, all that top talent they’ve been working so hard to get over the past few years, they’re going to lose in an instant if they don’t adjust and make it a top priority.
Megan Joecks:
I couldn’t agree more. Charter Steel, we talk a lot about something we call our success formula. And it’s really this concept that our results and our success are fueled by our culture. So this topic resonates really well with me and with our entire organization. We talk about how a great culture will drive employee engagement, to Joe’s point, and that those engaged employees improve performance. When we have that heightened performance, it obviously will produce results and those results are reinvested back into our organization, which positively affect the culture and the formula just continues to repeat itself. So I’m really fortunate to work for an organization that doesn’t ask, what is the ROI on culture? Because we know it. We see it. We see that success formula working every day. And whether it’s good times or bad times like March of 2020, a strong culture will withstand anything. And I think if we can start having those conversations early and often with leadership, they’ll start to see that as well.
Joe Scarfone:
Yeah, I can’t agree more with that. The thing is is that if organizations start to think in that mindset of what is the ROI? Then they’re going to get in the way of themselves and they’re going to not have the right culture because it’s all focused on that. So I think that focusing on your people, making it about your employee experience first and foremost, that will naturally bring that ROI along the way.
Megan Joecks:
Absolutely agree.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
Definitely. It all come back to company culture is felt. Like you feel it when you walk in the door. So those are great points.
Sarah Gallo:
Yes, I love that. Or in some cases, when you log on. Very cool. Perfect. Well, Megan, Joe, before we wrap up today, are there any other key takeaways you’d like to share with our listeners?
Megan Joecks:
I would just say we talked about The Great Resignation. I think now just more than ever, organizations must focus on talent and everything related to talent. And learning is a great way to keep our employees engaged and growing with our organizations because if we don’t offer this, someone else will and to what Joe said earlier, our good talent will go out and find it if we’re not willing to give it to them.
Joe Scarfone:
Absolutely. Culture and engagement are critical right now in this period that we’re facing. And if we’re not able to figure out ways to keep that talent engaged, it’s going to be detrimental for our organization’s futures. And so learning and development is a key part of that, but I also encourage orgs to look beyond just learning. Obviously this is a learning podcast. We know it’s a critical part, but there’s so many other aspects too that L&D plays a part of in this process. And the key thing is talk to your people in your orgs, find out what they need and match it up and learning is going to show up as one of those pieces for sure.
Sarah Gallo:
Great. Well, on that note, Megan, Joe, thank you so much for speaking with us today on the podcast. How can our listeners get in touch with you if they’d like to reach out?
Megan Joecks:
Anyone can connect with me on LinkedIn. I’m always looking to expand my network of learning leaders. So happy to connect.
Joe Scarfone:
Yep, same here. I’m on LinkedIn. Open and willing to connect with anybody who’s wanting to.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
For more insights on training’s role in building company culture and to view the highlights from the episode in animation, check out the show notes for this episode at trainingindustry.com/trainingindustrypodcast.
Sarah Gallo:
And as always, don’t forget to rate and review us on your favorite podcast app. Until next time.
Speaker 1:
If you have feedback about this episode or would like to suggest a topic for a future program, email us at info@trainingindustry.com or use the contact us page at trainingindustry.com. Thanks for listening to the Training Industry podcast.
