The Great Resignation has caused employees across industries to quit their jobs at record rates in favor of new opportunities that better align with their interests, values and goals.
To learn more about how learning and development can help organizations retain their people, and attract new talent, we spoke with Julian Malnak, global director of L&D at Goodyear, and Julie Winkle Giulioni, a columnist for Training Industry Magazine, consultant and author of, “Promotions Are So Yesterday: Redefine Career Development. Help Employees Thrive,” releasing in March.
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- Certification: Certified Professional in Training Management (CPTM™) Program
- Article: Employers Experience a Great Awakening as They Seek to Retain Employees
- Magazine: Winter 2022 Issue
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The transcript for this episode follows:
Speaker 1:
Welcome to The Business of Learning, the learning leader’s podcast from Training Industry.
Sarah Gallo:
Hi, and welcome back to The Business of Learning for the first episode of 2022. I’m Sarah Gallo, a senior editor at Training Industry.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
And I’m Michelle Eggleston Schwartz, editorial director at Training Industry, and your co-host. We’re looking forward to another year of great conversations with expert learning leaders on the latest news and ideas in the Training Industry. Today’s episode is brought to us by the Certified Professional in Training Management Program.
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Sarah Gallo:
As we record this episode in January 2022, companies across industries are still grappling with the great resignation with employees quitting their jobs at record rates in favor of new opportunities that better align with their interests, values and goals. The good news is that learning and development can help organizations retain their people and attract new talent at a time when it’s never been more difficult to do so. To learn more, we’re speaking with Julian Malnak, Global Director of L&D at Goodyear and Julie Winkle Guilioni, a columnist for Training Industry Magazine, a consultant, and author of, “Promotions Are So Yesterday: Redefine Career Development. Help Employees Thrive,” releasing in March. Julian and Julie, welcome to the podcast.
Julie Winkle Giulioni:
Thank you.
Julian Malnak:
Thank you for having us.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
As Sarah mentioned, The Great Resignation has become a challenge for companies across industries. I feel like we can’t turn on the news or look online anymore without it making headlines. So, I’m really interested today to hear what you think has contributed to the rise in employee turnover in recent months.
Julian Malnak:
That’s a great question, Michelle, and one that I think is on the mind of so many people. When I think of the great resignation and it’s timing with respect to the pandemic, one word comes to mind around its cause, disruption. And what I mean, disruption, what we see and what we hear all the time about nowadays is three things, accelerated retirements, people who are opting out of the workplace prematurely, perhaps maybe a little early. A second thing is accelerated trends. We see a lot of changes in the workforce and coincident with the pandemic, there’s all these trends that just started that were kind of moving gradually, they’re now moving faster. And that has a lot to do with where you work and how you work. And then the last thing perhaps is just that the office is not a boundary anymore. With more people working from home, perhaps organizations don’t have employees maybe as captive from a location perspective and from a mindset perspective as they may have had previously, and that’s just some of the beginning things that occurred to me around disruption.
Julie Winkle Giulioni:
Yeah. I couldn’t agree more, Julian. What you’re describing is really the external disruptions, the disruption to the external landscape, and at the same time, I think, there’s also disruption to the internal landscape. I frequently think about The Great Resignation as being inspired by what I like to refer to as The Great Reevaluation. Over the last couple of years, there have been a lot of COVID epiphanies. We’ve had a chance to re prioritize what’s really important to us. Anna Tavis wrote recently, and I just love this, the pandemic changed why people work, not just how they work. I know for myself, the last couple of years has given me a chance to hit the pause button on the rat race and the habitual behaviors and that kind of thing. And many folks have begun to think much more deeply about their relationship with work, what’s most important, the job they want work to do for them, as well as the job they’re doing for the work. And in fact, the research that I did for my latest book was actually focused on what’s most interesting and important to people right now. And when we asked folks to rank a variety of different development dimensions, the traditional sort of climbing the corporate ladder, that rat race stuff that we used to be into fell last on the list. What people are really interested in today is making a contribution, learning and growing their capacity. They really want to make some fundamental, genuine human connections and raise their level of confidence, feeling of, “I got this at work.” And so as a result, if people are going to put in the 40 or 60 or 80 hours that they do in the workplace, they’re wanting it to make a difference. And if they can’t find that difference where they are, they’re going to find a place to make a difference somewhere else, whether it’s another employer or doing gig work. Entrepreneurship is certainly on the rise, or as Julian mentioned, these early retirements where people are just stepping away from work altogether.
Sarah Gallo:
Those are all some very real reasons I think we’re seeing people leave their jobs. And I love what you said, Julie, about The Great Reevaluation, because COVID really did give us all a chance to reevaluate pretty much every aspect of our lives. And that definitely includes work. Now that you kind of broke down those reasons why employees are leaving their jobs, how can training and development, help companies retain their people?
Julie Winkle Giulioni:
I’m happy to jump in on that one, Julian, first. I was reflecting when I was internal to an organization in a learning and development role, I remember working so hard to get senior leader’s attention, to be able to have the function become a vital part of our organization. We were always fighting for a seat at the table. And as I think about, again, the last couple of years has been a wonderful opportunity for L&D, not just to take a seat at the table, but they’re at the head of the table. They have really become a force reckoned with within organizations, really very strategically contributing to the organization’s mission. And so opportunities to learn and grow, those have been forever key attrition and retention drivers. That’s all only become more important in the past couple of years. And so it strikes me that this is really our time. This is the time for L&D to expand its footprint, to scale its efforts, to find ways to embed learning more and more into the workflow, into the nature or the work. And this feels a little opportunistic, but I’m going to say it anyway, I think this is a time for L&D to take advantage of the angst and the concern and the fear and the receptivity that managers have right now, given that they’re up again some extraordinary challenges. We can use that opportunity to turn managers from passive consumers of L&D services to being real fundamental partners in the process, helping them step up to the role that we know for years we’ve been working toward making happen, but giving them the tools and the support and the confidence to be able to do that.
Julian Malnak:
I love how Julie described having a seat at the head of the table and how this pandemic has really helped create that opportunity. There are three ways and they kind of all begin with Cs for me that L&D can actually add measurable value here in helping retain people. The first one is connection. We have, in our capacity, the opportunity to create those connections that Julie referred to before that so many employees are looking to have. And what we mean by connection is exactly what was said about, well, making a difference, meeting people who can help us make a difference, meeting people who sponsor us, meeting people who care about the same things we do, being part of not just the work, but a community of people who are the kind of mission driven. It’s that connectivity that I think a lot of people are looking for today which L&D can lean into. The second C is culture. This is the secret sauce that so many organizations are waking up to see and really experiencing, if there were weaknesses in your culture, what a pandemic does is they sort of magnify and accelerate and which you see those things kind of laid bare. And every organization today is thinking about how it can play to the strengths of its culture to retain its employees. And education and learning shows up in that, because it’s the how, it’s the what it feels like to grow and to work there and how that experience is brought together thoughtfully creates a differentiation that many organizations are now just discovering. The third C [is] really career captaining, helping people be the captain of their careers. It’s great that we can offer great educational experiences, but how do we tie that in the world today where individuals really have to, and want to navigate, take back their careers and navigate that for themselves? What tools can L&D bring forward in the learning conversation, in the development conversation actually helps people develop this portable skillset of being a captain of their career to move forward. That’s just my three Cs and I’m sure there are many more, but they align very well with what Julie was talking about.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
I love that, the three Cs, and helping employees become the captain of their careers. I love that. That’s a really a good way to think about it. But great points from both of you on that. While L&D can certainly help retain top talent, I think it’s still important that companies, as they’re rolling out training programs, they need to be strategically aligned to the business to avoid wasting resources. So, with that in mind, what types of development opportunities do you see being the most impactful in terms of engaging and retaining during The Great Resignation?
Julian Malnak:
It’s a great question because it leans us, it brings us right into the old equation of the 70-20-10. The 70% being the learning on the job, the 20% being the social connection, the social component of learning and the 10% of course, being the formal learning. And I would say that this begins with really leaning strongly into that 70 and 20, and not worrying so much about doing the 10 well, which we’re already doing. And on that, I see a few things. One is helping people back to those connections and back to this finding meaning. What can we do in the development process to give people an opportunity to make a difference? Whether that be by showing up in their communities, whether that be by working on a high impact project with visibility, what is that thing that helps me feel like I’m making that genuine contribution to something I’m passionate about that I can get connected into on a resonant personal level. It’s number one. I think number two has a lot to do with future proofing. What we see today, and of course the pandemic has accelerated this, but this notion of, gosh, my skills I have today, their half life is going down and the things I need, the things I’m going to need next, whether they be skills around things like digitization, or whether they be skills around something that’s really important, at Goodyear today, for example, sustainability, what can you, as an employer give me to help me have those skills to navigate my future career and to build that successfully? And the third one I’d think around is just this mentorship and sponsorship, it ties in with connection, it ties in with co culture, how can I meet those people who by affiliating with them, knowing them, building relationship with them, I can learn more. I can be better. And they in turn through this reciprocity can help me kind of realize where I’m trying to get to. And maybe in turn, I can help them too, because relationships are very human and important, and lasting thing that’s extremely durable and valuable to people in a time of so much rapid change. These are some things that I think are top of mind for me on that 70-20-10 component. Julie.
Julie Winkle Giulioni:
I love that. And I love the way you dug into that, that 20%, that’s so frequently forgotten, reciprocal relationships. Man, I mean, there’s so much to be learned from that, Julian. I love that. So, maybe let me take a minute and focus on the 70 piece of it. Because when I think about the types of development opportunities that are really going to make an impact for individuals and for organizations. I really see that they’re the ones that at are organic and embedded and hands on and workflow based, action based sort of learning that Julian mentioned, the experiential stuff. All of that stuff that falls into the 70%, the reason I think it’s most impactful is because these are the learning experiences and activities that are most accessible. It’s always available. We don’t have to wait for a course or a workshop or a conference or something. This is something that can happen anytime, anywhere. It’s scalable. When we think about the traditional workshop, even webinar, our sorts of models, it’s one to few. When we start talking about this kind of embedded experience based learning, it is something that lives out on an individual basis. It’s most cost effective. And the other thing about it that I think is more important today maybe than in the past, is that it’s personalized to the individual. Right now, anything that we can do that recognizes the individual, that says, “I see you, I understand you. I know where you want to go, and I want to you do that.” Anything really, back to what Julian’s talking about creates that connection is going to be key in terms of engagement and retention right now. And so these kinds of experience based activities and opportunities, I think really have an impact and are key. Problem is, I mean, let’s face it, typically, managers aren’t great at this. It’s not where they live. When I talk to managers about this kind of thing, they say, “Oh yeah, I got that.” I send people on special projects and stretch assignments, and that’s the extent of it. And of course we all know there are countless other ways that we can engineer experiences that create the development that people are looking for. And so I think the opportunity right now for L&D is maybe to redirect some of our efforts, some of our time to really work with managers and teach them what this 70% is all about out and how it works to maybe even act as consultants and coaches to them. Sitting at their side, helping them think it through and then creating the resources so ultimately they can be self-sufficient. When it comes to engineering, these experiences, being able to support it, being able follow up, having protocols for debriefing and extracting the learning from it. I guess it’s like this is the time that we can teach our managers to fish so that we don’t have to keep serving up these gorgeous seafood platters to them going forward.
Sarah Gallo:
Yeah. I love that. That’s super important, especially the point about that in-person learning. And it’s probably more challenging now than ever as some employees may be working across the country or even in a different country and you can’t necessarily see those challenges they’re facing in their day to day roles. So, that kind of debriefing and consulting like you mentioned, continuous follow up is super important for sure. We’ll shift gears now. I mean, we know that many employees are leaving the workforce due to that burnout that they’re experiencing and a lack of support from their companies. How can training help create a human centric workforce that does support employee wellness and mental health?
Julie Winkle Giulioni:
I’d be happy to start that one, Julian. Early on in the pandemic, I was so impressed as I worked with many organizations across industries, across the U.S, globally at how the learning and development function left into action and wrapped its arms around the organization and its people, and really took care of them. The training that was almost immediately available around mindfulness and stress reduction, working from home and setting boundaries. It was just really impressive and really helpful to give employees these skills. So, going directly to the end user, the employee and offering this kind of skills training is important. And yet I really think at the end of the day that managers are the linchpin here. And the key is how can we help managers adopt a different kind of mindset around people’s relationships with work? How do we help managers create a health inspiring and a healthy culture that’s sustainable within the organization. For years, I think we’ve all treated work like an eTicket ride where we’re just going great guns, everything full out. And obviously that’s not sustainable. And so managers are in a unique role to be able to help employees anticipate and recognize and even preempt some of the overwhelm, the exhaustion, the stress, the burnout, the mental health issues, and to help people understand that there are times in their career where backing off isn’t slacking off. Sometimes the best thing we can do for ourselves, for our careers, for others, the best way we can move forward is to actually take a step back. And so when managers have the capacity and the willingness and motivation to help people relate to work differently, to use their time at work as an opportunity to cultivate meaning and contentment, and again, back to Julian’s connections, balance, I mean, that’s really what human-centric leadership is all about. That’s what treating people humanely is all about. And that’s what creates a kind of environment where people are going to be in engaged and be inclined to want to stick around longer.
Julian Malnak:
I just love how Julie talks about things, so I’m always happy I get to go after her response. But when I think about this connected company, this notion of …. And just this last summer, so many data points around this question around burnout and what are companies doing and how to train, help, it was a great McKinsey study of more than 65,000 people and large knowledge workers, and it came out that this feeling of being burned out is now almost always end of the spectrum. And they’ve never seen that before. And then of course, Gallup, which does much more holistic polls found the same thing, found that American workers particularly are some of the most stressed out in the world right now. And why I’m saying this first is because this is tying back to this important point Julie made about training being at the head of the table. What many organizations have seen including ours is this incredible linkage between the business case here, and the opportunity to demonstrate business value and employee engagement. When we do our surveys, we see a lot about this notion of, “Hey, what can we do to help us give us the tools to continue to overcome, to be resilient and to continue to be productive in this fast paced, moving environment, and sometimes difficult environment that we’re in.” We see it all the time. And when we respond that way, the employees recognize that and they respond in kind. So we see a rise in employee engagement. So, this notion of the connected caring organization is something that makes eminent business sense, not just for salaried workers, but also at Goodyear globally, we’ve got hourly workers. Indeed, a majority of our workforces that way. And so I love Julie bringing up the role of the manager. We’ve been celebrating throughout the pandemic, the role of the frontline medical person who’s helping all these people who are dealing with COVID in the hospital environment. But I’d say that there are frontline heroes across every organization. And they are the frontline managers who have to deal with these issues that employees are feeling this as pandemic and this period in history continues, because it’s no longer a short game. It’s no longer something that’s going to be over in six months as Julie talked about. This is now kind of ubiquitous, it’s all encompassing. And so our frontline leaders to care about, for example, not just physical safety, which an organization like Goodyear really cares about a lot, but psychological safety. How do we take care of what’s going on up here in people’s minds and in their mindset in the world that they’re in. And that’s a whole new skill for a lot of organizations and a lot of leaders, but it’s one that every organization that wants to see business value of training. If they focus there, they’re going to see results come right back up to the bottom line. And that’s a good thing.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
I love all these insights around the role of the manager, because they play such a critical role in employee engagement and really creating that connection that’s going to make employees stay. And so I’d like to spend a little bit of time kind of expanding on that, talking about what skills do leaders need to support their people in today’s business climate. How do they create that connection? What skills do they need in that learning leadership focus on?
Julian Malnak:
I think one bucket that’s certainly important and is resonant across many industries and many organizations is this notion of the inclusive leader, being an inclusive leader, and what are the elements of that? Things like caring first about the development of others. We’ve been talking. about that on this call, this podcast, this conversation, the development of others is so very important because there’s what’s in it for them that we need to start with. It’s that empathy. So, this gets to empathy. Leaders beginning to recognize that what’s important to others is what they need to make important to them. So, this notion of having that empathy, that maybe we didn’t have that time for the transaction, but that’s a currency that can drive forward, both productivity, longevity, and every other positive aspiration we want from a team member and an organization like ours. Curiosity, how do we start less with, I know the answer to here, what do you all think about what the answer should be? This notion of helping people feel like they have a say and they can make a difference. So, how can I approach this world less with my preformed opinions, but more about curiosity and empathy and courage and all those attributes. I’m guessing from some of the things, Julie, that you’ve talked about that this is an area that is resonant in your research as well.
Julie Winkle Giulioni:
Yeah, for sure. As I’m listening to you, I love the way you’ve sort of created this umbrella of the inclusive leader and the time is certainly now for that. And maybe, I don’t know, almost a second cousin to that or a double click down. I’m not sure what is, is trust building, which is a bit of a meta skill really. And when you think about trust, it feels like it’s in such short supply these days and a manager who can inspire it. Man, I mean, like an oasis is created for people there. And so just building upon what you’re saying, the whole notion of caring, really caring about others’ interests more than your own, candor, the authenticity, transparency, vulnerability, humility, the ability to admit mistakes and put it out there and make it safe for other people to do the same thing. Really genuine, intentional listening to people, relationship building, walking the talk, that kind of congruence of words and deeds. All of that goes back, Julian, to what you were saying about psychological safety, creating that space, where people can bring their whole selves and be their whole selves, which today given working situations and the fact that so many folks are working from home, I mean, it’s really hard to separate all of that any longer. The other thing, and this kind of relates to it a little bit, but might be a bit of a twist. The other skill that I think managers are really going to have to double down on and figure out in the months and years to come is how do we build a team in a remote and hybrid environment? Because a lot of managers have become very good at building teams when we’re all co-located or even when we’re all not co-located. But this hybrid of some in, some out, it’s dicey, there are a lot of complexities. I mean, as leaders, how do I manage my own proximity bias? How I feel about those who are closer, further away, how do I manage that on the whole team’s part? And how do we make sure that everybody, no matter where they are is on an even footing with equal opportunities, how do we manage multimodal communication? It just strikes me that bringing people who are scattered to the wind together to be able to work collaboratively toward joint goals, that’s going to be a real high impact, high need skill going forward.
Julian Malnak:
It ties so well in with this notion of what I talk about in our second bucket of leadership around this notion of being a network leader. And by this, I mean, just a couple key things. Instead of the org chart, instead of the traditional hierarchy, the who’s the boss of who, and what silo am I in and where do I sit in this complicated organization, the network leader is capable of spanning boundaries to tap into resources and talent that don’t necessarily sit in maybe their immediate space. Why? Because the problems that we all face, the opportunities our organizations have actually are problems that span those boundaries. We need all kinds of people with different kinds of thinking, with different kinds of capabilities to tackle some of these tough things. And we need to be able to do it more quickly than we were able to before. So leaders who can span boundaries in organizations, and part two, span them outside of organizations. Leaders who are externally curious, who are not internally focused and just looking at what’s going on behind the four walls of that organization that they sit in, but are actually spanning the boundaries of the network beyond their organization. Think the LinkedIn super connectors, but then think about that in life. So, how do we have that external curiosity? Why? Because they need to take in all that cool data, that interesting information about what’s going on and see if any of those things represent signals. That actually could be useful of the organization they’re a part of. “Hey, I read this today in the Financial Times, what do you think of this?” And someone says, “Oh my gosh, I was exactly thinking of that.” And then that spreads around. And then all of a sudden it turns into an opportunity. I love that, Julie, you brought that up because I think the network leader being a network leader who can connect others and who can connect themselves is a skill that’s going to be needed more and more are by our managers and leaders going forward.
Sarah Gallo:
Yeah. I love that. Those are all definitely important skills and skills probably a lot of leaders never learned in business school or in their first management role. I mean, there’s no guidebook to navigating a pandemic. So, I think a lot of it is you learn, you fail and you try again and you pivot and you just keep going until you get it right. So, good to hear all those. I think it’s also important to touch on, you both kind of mentioned that the pandemic has had these long lasting impacts on how we work and learn. Many of them aren’t going away anytime soon. And I think it will be the same for the great resignation. How can we make sure that we’re continuing to invest in employee development after the great resignation ends and things go back to so-called normal or whatever that may be, and what challenges might companies face if they fail to keep investing in their people?
Julian Malnak:
I love this question, and it’s thank you for asking it. From my perspective, it kind of begins, and I’m sorry if I’m not quite quoting this 100% correctly, but when I heard you ask it, it made me think of that Maya Angelou line that talked about how people will forget maybe perhaps what someone did, but they will never forget the way something made them feel. And the organizations that are headed after that are going to be successful at this, are going to be capable of being that organization that’s helped people build a great career. It doesn’t mean that person stayed there, but it means that that person while they were there, it helped them make friends and build connections. It helped them make a difference back to what Julie talked about before. It helped them make themselves better. They got done with that organization or for whatever time span they were there, whether it be five years, 10 years, 20 or 30, at the end of that journey, they spoke well of that organization because of they saw the benefits intrinsic to them as a person, and they took that with them. The organizations that crack that recipe, that get that code are going to do real well because they’re going to win that war for talent. They’re going to track that kind of top talent. They’re going to deal with the disruption. They’re going to be able to instill their employees with the skills that they’re seeking around things like digitization, sustainability, focus on consumers. And ones that also address the CEO worry. I mean, a lot of CEOs are focused today on how can we keep the kind of culture that we need to stay agile and competitive and amidst all these things that Julie talked about with hybrid work and remote teams, that’s a real concern. What’s the secret sauce needed to help us stay competitive. And any CEO be concerned about that simply because that’s what they’re there for. This is a high stakes game, and there’s a lot to be gained by development leaning into this. I’ll turn it over to Julie. I mean, you can tell I’m passionate about it.
Julie Winkle Giulioni:
And well said, I don’t know if much more to say on the subject. It strikes me, over the last couple of years, what we’ve seen is that the organizations that were able to re-skill, re-tool, they’d be flexible and agile. They’re the ones who thrived. During this time of uncertainty, and I think we need to come to terms of the fact that we’re probably in for uncertainty from here on out. And so after this time passes, I love, Sarah, your idea, that whatever that new normal is, can we still have the issue that the half-life of technical skills is shrinking. And if we are not up-skilling, re-skilling folks, organizations are going to fall behind very quickly. And Julian mentioned the war on talent. Right now, the war is at a fever pitch, but even in a different kind of talent marketplace, there is still fierce competition for top talent. And learning and development, a commitment to career development in organizations, that’s a key differentiator that’s going to attract the best and the brightest out there.
So, the war might be a little tapered back, but there’s always a war for the talent that you really want in an organization. And so a continued commitment to development is one additional tool in your arsenal, if you will. One last thought is we haven’t talked too much about this, but the employee experience radiates and creates the customer experience. And so when we’re investing in people, when they’re feeling skillful and capable and respect, that radiates out to customers. And so we’re going to see better business results when that kind of commitment to L&D is a perpetual commitment and not just episodic or in response to current conditions
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
I love the sentiment around, we just need to have a continued commitment to learning and development as we move forward. Those are all great insights. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this conversation today, but before we do wrap up, are there any other key takeaways you’d like to leave our listeners with?
Julie Winkle Giulioni:
Well, I guess for me, it’s just, this is an incredibly exciting time to be in this field. Learning and development has never been more important and we’ve got just a tremendous opportunity, a moment right now. L&D, I really believe has saved countless organizations over the past two years. The efforts of learning professionals have had a profound effect on individuals, on organizations and frankly on our economy as a whole. And so now that we’re at the head of the table, I guess I would just say we’re really poised to make an even greater impact going forward.
Julian Malnak:
And returning to what Julie talked about and came to mind when she talked about it, so I’m really glad she raised it is this moment that we’re having in L&D, this moment that we’re having in our organizations. I like to tell my team, and I frequently feel this way, just when people ask me, “Well, what is our opportunity right now? What can we do for our business?” I feel like every morning, every day I’ve woken up and I’m in a diamond mind, I’m in a diamond mind, and there’s an incredible opportunity to come out of that diamond mind reaping great opportunity for the organization. There’s all these diamonds in there. And yet you can waste that time in that diamond mind, you can waste that time and come away with some small gems or some big gems. And to come away with those big gems, I’m going to offer leaders, just two things. The first thing is don’t jump at the next shiny little thing that just happens to be interesting. Be careful about those things, because those shiny little things while they’re intriguing, may actually just lead you to very small little diamonds that don’t add up to very much. And the second thing, if you’re going to pull away some big diamonds be aware of the gravity of the day to day, but always make time, and you could do this in your calendar. Ask yourself, “Have I made a date with the future, myself? Am I leaving that time for an hour in my calendar a week where I’ve made a date with the future to think about what those big diamonds are that are literally the things I’m going to be digging up, need to dig tomorrow.” And what I mean tomorrow, I really mean tomorrow. And if you’re not doing that, then that time in the diamond mind, you may not come out with those nuggets that you really can. And I really hope everyone can. I think this is, as Julie said, one of the most exciting and historic moments in learning and development that will perhaps certainly, in the span of my career, and I thought I’ve had a lot, but I don’t think there’s anything like this moment that I’ve ever seen. And I think we can all take advantage if we’re mindful.
Sarah:
Perfect. Well, it definitely sounds like an exciting time to be in L&D and for me and Michelle and us here at Training Industry to be supporting you all and your efforts. On that note, thank you both for speaking with us today on the podcast. And how can our listeners get in touch with you after the episode if they’d like to reach out?
Julian Malnak:
Well, they can reach me on LinkedIn, Julian Malnak, I’m Head of Global L&D for LinkedIn, and you can reach me there and I’m always happy to connect. I think it’s such an important thing to stay connected and to build your network. So, feel free to do it that way.
Julie Winkle Giulioni:
And I can be found on LinkedIn as well, as well as my website, juliewinkelguilioni.com.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
For more insights on training’s role in retaining talent during the great resignation, and to view the highlights from this episode in animation, check out the show notes for this episode at trainingindustry.com/trainingindustrypodcast.
Sarah Gallo:
And as always, don’t forget to rate and review us on your favorite podcast app. We love hearing from you, until next time.
Speaker 2:
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