With more companies having some employees work on site, and others remotely, and some with a combination of both, hybrid training has arrived as a new way to deliver training to the modern workforce, but it’s not without its challenges. To learn more about hybrid learning, we spoke with Dr. Grace Chang, associate director, learning research and development at EY Americas, EY and Vidya Krishnan, chief learning officer and global head of learning and development at Ericsson.
Listen now for insights on:
- Hybrid learning challenges and solutions.
- How training can connect hybrid teams.
- How to ensure an equitable hybrid learning experience.
Listen Now:
Additional Resources:
- (Research Report): “Training in the Time of COVID: How Learning and Development is Responding“
- (Glossary): Hybrid Instructor-led Training
- (Article): “DEI in a Hybrid Work Environment: Tips and Best Practices“
- (Article): “3 Ways to Maximize Hybrid Learning Effectiveness“
To learn more about hybrid learning and other training delivery methods, fill out the form below to download the “Expert Perspectives on Training Delivery” e-book.
The transcript for this episode follows:
Speaker:
Welcome to the Business of Learning, the learning leader’s podcast from Training Industry.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
Hi, welcome back to the Business of Learning. I’m Michelle Eggleston Schwartz, editor-in-chief at Training Industry
Sarah Gallo :
I’m Sarah Gallo, a senior editor at Training Industry and your co-host. Before we begin today’s episode, here’s a brief message from Training Industry research, the sponsor for today’s episode.
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Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
Gone are the days when training was delivered strictly in an in-person classroom environment. Technology has enabled training to be delivered online, on-demand, via eLearning, a mobile device or even a text message, extending well beyond the traditional classroom. However, with the rise of hybrid work, we’re now facing yet another shift in how we deliver training. With more companies having some employee work onsite, in-person, and others, remotely, and some with a combination of both, hybrid training has arrived as a new way to deliver training to the modern workforce, but it’s not without its challenges. To learn more about hybrid learning, we’re speaking with Grace Chang, associate director of research and development at EY, and Vidya Krishnan, chief learning officer at Erricson. Vidya, Grace, welcome to the podcast.
Grace Chang:
Thank you.
Vidya Krishnan:
Thank you.
Sarah Gallo :
Yeah, welcome both. We’re excited to dig into a topic that’s definitely emerged as a hot topic in the learning industry. To get started, why don’t you both share with us a bit on how you define hybrid training and what does it really mean to deliver training in a hybrid environment? Vidya, let’s start with you.
Vidya Krishnan:
Sure. I think we have come to define hybrid training as digital by default. And defining it that way has actually given us, I think, freedom to reimagine and interpret this, not just as a blend of physical environments, but as a blend of everything that would make an experience more equitable, more meaningful [and] more effective. For us, delivering training in this hybrid environment, what we’ve really come to see is the physical co-location of people is no longer part of the setup, it’s no longer prerequisite for all of those good outcomes to occur. And we have really become disciplined about making sure that three things are in place. Our ecosystem is making it easy to thrive and learn in a high grid workplace. Our culture system is supporting that people grow when they try things out and teach each other. And that our business system is keeping our focus on the critical skills for the company that drive profitable growth. And when we’re able to do this with these three things in mind, we find that digital by default is actually giving us empowerment to make hybrid work.
Grace Chang:
I actually love that Vidya’s response to that. I’ve definitely heard hybrid described in many different ways. And I think what we’re talking about here is really synchronous hybrid. The idea that you’re not limited to one location, you can have people simultaneously be in person calling in from various different places around the world, different time zones. And I think there’s obviously a lot of pros with this in terms of flexibility. And I think it really makes a lot of sense given the kind of world that we’re moving toward. We’ve seen in the last two years that we have to be more flexible with everything we do, including training. So I love the idea that we can do this mix of having people in-person [and people] working from different [locations]. I think it’s very doable, but I think that obviously there’s a lot of things we need to be aware of, particular challenges that we need to address. And I think a lot of times people think it’s not doable because they’ve probably seen bad examples of how it’s been done. But I think we can talk about all the ways we’ve seen it done well.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
That’s such a great point, Grace. Like we mentioned before, hybrid learning is fairly new for a lot of organizations, many of which adopted this approach kind of as a result of the pandemic. And so it makes sense that we haven’t quite perfected it yet and there’s a lot of challenges regarding it. And so that’s a big reason why we’re having this conversation today, to kind of talk through some of those challenges. Grace, could you kind of walk us through some of those key challenges learning and development leaders might be facing when developing and delivering hybrid programs?
Grace Chang:
Yeah, definitely. And I’ll probably talk more about what we’re seeing in the research. Obviously, this is a new area. There isn’t a lot of great research out there. A lot of it is more anecdotal. But we’re starting to have case studies do more experimental designs, hopeful, looking at hybrid more systematically, right? And what we know is that there are definitely pros as well as cons. We’ve already talked about some of the pros, the flexibility, you can bring in people in a way that you couldn’t before. You can bring in
But while it has those pros, it definitely has challenges. And some of the challenges are the same challenges we’ve had whenever we develop good learning. But then you can exacerbate it when you then push it into hybrid learning. So there are definitely some hybrid-specific challenges as well. I think in terms of challenges, one of the first things to keep in mind is that change, any kind of change, even change for the better is hard from a brain perspective. We’re wired to prefer what’s familiar to us. We have a familiarity bias. And so resistance to change is not unusual. And the reason why I bring this up is because before we even talk about development of content and delivery of the actual learning, learning leaders who want to do hybrid learning likely will encounter some resistance to hybrid learning, possibly from the learners themselves, from designers, from facilitators or even [from] other leaders within their organization, because it’s different and different it’s scary to us. And a lot of people, like I said, think that you can’t deliver a good virtual or hybrid learning experiences because they might have had some bad experiences because a rush to hybrid because of all the situations that happened in the last two years. It’s not true. We can definitely have great hybrid experiences, but it does take some careful planning. So beyond the challenge that change brings, we can think about specific challenges that designers, instructors, and facilitators, and learners are likely to face with hybrid learning and how it’s designed and delivered. And I think there’s kind of roughly three buckets of challenges we can think about, but of course there’s obviously overlap and they influence each other. One is physical, one is social, and the other is cognitive. So physically, obviously, learners all need to have a good, clear view of the instructor or facilitator. And it’s helpful for the facilitators to be able to see the learners as well and get feedback from them. So all this requires good video setup. The understanding that learners will be on video and for the instructor or facilitator to be mindful of how they present, so making sure they’re centered within the frame, thinking about the physical space and set-up of where they are. Also, audio can be a huge challenge, especially if remote people cannot hear as well as in-person learners. And audio is one of the biggest challenges they think in the research. They say that can help people feel excluded, especially the remote learners. And obviously, in a hybrids setting, we depend a lot on technology platforms to work. And if there are outages, connectivity issues, or technology is difficult to use, all of that can be problematic and affect learner engagement and participation. So these kinds of physical differences that we may not think are that big a deal, they actually become a big deal, for the remote people to, especially. It can lead to inequities in terms of what in-person students and remote people can experience. It’s harder for some students to see visuals or get access to important documents. I think it’s important for us to realize that we will never have the same experience for all learners. Remote learners are going to have a different experience. But it’s really being mindful to make sure that those inequities don’t cause other issues, right? [It’s important that they] don’t lead to social challenges. So that brings me to my second bucket of social challenges, which is really about inclusion and feeling of belonging. There are definitely so many social aspects to learning. And there’s a lot of research now showing that remote students can feel like an outsider at times. They don’t feel as seen or as heard. And it’s harder for them to actively participate. And it’s not really that surprising because we know that, as humans, we have a natural distance bias, our tend to and tendency to prefer people who are near us physically. So we might call on people that we see that are right next to us much more than someone who’s more distant, someone who’s remote. And we often don’t even realize how much we do this. And this can lead to that feeling of exclusion. And that’ll definitely affect whether people are engaged or not. And that brings me to my third category of cognitive challenges. Obviously, we know, from a brain perspective, people need to pay attention in order to learn. And research has shown that remote learners can be more passive. A lot of times it’s almost like they’re watching TV rather than actively participating, engaging with the learning, especially in lecture-heavy learning. There’s also the issue of cognitive load for both the students and the instructor or facilitator. So you can think of cognitive load as how much we’re holding onto and processing at a moment. And it’s important to keep in mind that our brain can only handle so much at once. It’s often tempting to use all sorts of technological tools because they’re cool. It’s great that we have all this technology, but that add to the load. There’s more we have to figure out. There’s more we have to interact with. There’s also a lot going on in a hybrid classroom. Because you have multiple people in multiple places trying to interact, trying to understand each other. And it takes a lot of effort. And it’s especially challenging in terms of load for the teachers, for the people who are facilitating courses, because they have to maintain everyone’s attention and try to give two different groups of people, at least two different groups of people, good learning experiences all while teaching content. And it can be cognitively exhausting, too. We know that there’s all these thoughts about video and how, while video can be a great thing because it helps us give cues of what we’re saying, [and] what we mean, [and] it can be very useful and it can make us feel more comfortable with people, it’s also exhausting to be on video all day. It adds to our cognitive load. Knowing that people are watching you is exhausting. And so all of these things can affect the cognitive experience and our ability to learn as well. And then of course beyond these challenges that are specific to hybrid, there’s just the basics of best practices of how we design and deliver good quality, brain-friendly learning content regardless of the type of learning delivery. I think a lot of times when we think about shifting to virtual or hybrid [training delivery], we take courses that might already have some issues, that might not have totally followed the learning science to begin with, and then try to make some tweaks and put it in a hybrid environment. And so we now exacerbate the issues that we’re already there to begin with. So there’s definitely some basic learning science that is relevant, no matter what the delivery’s going to be. So I know, Vidya, you probably have a lot to say on this. You’ve probably seen a lot of this, especially, I would imagine, in the inclusion space. I think that often is the one that really gets people talking, especially in this topic.
Vidya Krishnan:
I resonate a lot with what you said, Grace, about the three dimensions. We kind of refer to them as, it’s all about preparedness, togetherness and effectiveness. Because making sure that the environment is conducive to a genuine emotional connection among everyone involved, it’s become our highest purpose. I think it always was. And any learning designer will tell you that’s the highest purpose. But I think now the tolerance to miss or inadequately serve that purpose has gone way down because it’s so easy to tune out, and the only thing that keeps someone engaged is not because there’s a class, but because they’re captivated, what does it take to captivate you? It takes authenticity, authentic connection, distinctiveness. I can say I, and I think by association, our whole team, we’ve been heavily influenced by work like Priya Parker’s “Art of Gathering.” And [we] pondered, “What does it mean to gather in a virtual space and all about creating distinctive, authentic, human-centered experiences?” So for us, preparedness, togetherness, effectiveness, they’ve been our guidepost as well, with, as you mentioned earlier, a healthy dose of experimentation.
Grace Chang:
Yes, definitely.
Vidya Krishnan:
“Try this, try it, try this, take everybody. Now do it this way. Did you like that?” And again, the what I’m proud of, and I think it’s true of many companies, the workforce is willing. They are willing partners in that experimentation. We all want the same thing, which is make a connection that compensates for the fact that I’m going crazy in a pandemic. So knowing that is a purpose and a pain point we all share has kind of laser focused our efforts and made us increase and accelerate our own learning journey about what works and what doesn’t.
Grace Chang:
What I especially love about what you said was your emphasis on human-centered, right? A lot of this is about how can we think about the human, all the humans that are involved, right? The various kinds of learners, the various personas, including the facilitator as well, what are their pain points? What are their goals? What are their challenges? What can be done? And really being very deliberate. I think that’s what we’re all coming to here, right? The idea that more designing for hybrid courses, having to be very deliberate in the thinking of the design and the delivery of the course. And that all starts by thinking about the humans that are involved, what are they experiencing? And how can we make sure that they all have a great experience that’s conducive to learning?
Vidya Krishnan:
And this may sound silly when I say it, but this realization profoundly that we are human. So we need to try before we fly. And if we don’t enjoy sitting through the thing that we designed, then we definitely will not be bringing that to anyone else. And if we love it, then there’s a good chance that someone else will too. And so I think we’ve gotten better about that kind of piloting, trying what we are preparing and making sure that it moves us. And then there’s a greater chance that it moves someone else.
Sarah Gallo:
Yeah. That’s great. I love that kind of iterative approach, which is so important and something we’ve really all had to apply across pretty much all areas of our lives over the past few years. But I think that also goes back to what you mentioned, Grace, about that cognitive load. And one of those challenges, really, is kind of the burnout that remote workers and remote learners are facing as well as this facilitator. Do either of you have any tips for preventing burnout in the hybrid learning space.
Grace Chang:
Yeah. So from a cognitive perspective, there’s a lot to think about in terms of load and attention. In terms of the load, the most important tip my mind is getting the facilitator help. No facilitator can manage both an in-person [and] virtual [training experience] without help. I personally have been on the end where I was trying to manage everything. It’s not possible. There’s too much to manage. There’s too much cognitive load to try to track who needs what, what questions are coming up, am I keeping people engaged. Trying to keep people engaged. Not to mention to teach the actual content is so difficult. And so having someone, a producer or someone who’s even just handling the technology piece can be very helpful. And it can also help prevent some of the exclusion that we hear that remote learners have. Because a lot of the exclusion comes from having difficulty with technology or audio or something. And there’s no way that instructor or facilitator can help them when they’ve got 30 other people on the line. And so definitely that is a big thing with the cognitive load there. And then in terms of the cognitive load of learners, I think there’s a lot we can do in terms of good learning science, really focusing on what’s essential, not throwing in every bit of content. Because a lot of times we think, oh, they need to know this, and they need to know this, and they need to know this. But the problem is we can only reasonably handle so much information at once. And when you put that much in, you risk people just not learning anything, nothing valuable. So there’s definitely things we can do there for that. Vidya?
Vidya Krishnan:
I think for us, we have recognized that, and I recognized it firsthand, not just secondhand, but that burnout is not just the presence of fatigue. Burnout is the absence of fulfillment. And so we have to create conditions and connections through our learning experiences that propagate genuine, authentic fulfillment. And I think we’ve also realized that averting burnout is not just something that you happens to you. Like so many other things, we believe it is a skill to be learned, to be taught, to be practiced, to be perfected in many ways, not as an individual, but also as a team, and something that leaders have to exemplify. So to that extent, we have piloted, and very excited that we’ve now launched globally, a special upskilling program called Take Back Your Time. And it is all about working smarter, not harder, changing our ways of work, which involve all of the things you said, Grace, about simplifying cognitive load, prioritizing what really matters changing the way we work, even the way we talk, and sometimes the way we even think and behave so that our relationship with time changes from one of scarcity, “I don’t have enough time,” to sufficiency, “I have time for what matters the most to my work and life,” And propagating this very important connection that I think we’re trying to incorporate into our learning design and our experiential design that being well and doing well should never compete with each other. So for us, this is key as a design principle to create the kind of learning experiences that feel like, in some ways, they’re sanctuary. It’s where you go to replenish yourself. And we hope that that is doing a small part and we hope a bigger part to help our people cope with conditions that are unprecedented in human history.
Grace Chang:
No, I love what you said, Vidya. I think a lot of that really resonates to me. And one of the things that our CLO at EY likes to talk about is learning that really draws people in. It’s desired, not required. Right? And I think that’s a really important aspect to everything we do. Thinking about, not just from a content perspective, what’s useful, but there’s a lot of kinds of learning that we do, right? What is useful for people? How is it relevant for them in their lives? How does it meet their greater purpose? And really using that to draw people in. When we talk about keeping people engaged in a course, there’s a couple of aspects. Obviously, there’s this one aspect of wanting them to not be distracted by things. Best practice is about not multitasking because that’s not the brain friendly doing things like that. But then there’s this other aspect of needing to really draw people in, to make them want to pay attention through, not just the content, but also how we deliver and develop the activities, the engagement, what do we do in the course that really draws them in and makes it so relevant for them?
Sarah Gallo :
You’ve touch a bit on your own experience there, Vidya, just a bit, but I’d love if you could both talk a little bit more about your own personal experiences with hybrid learning. Do you want to get started for us, Vidya?
Vidya Krishnan:
Yeah, sure. I think first, personally and as a team, the experience of delivering hybrid training solutions has been like fast-tracked times 10, because, again, the pandemic, something never wanted, don’t want, hope it will be over soon, but we also have been determined not to waste the crisis that it is. And it has created both an unprecedented hunger, as Grace said, of people desiring rather than requiring that kind of connection. And so our team has had to pivot and practice and experiment a lot. But we’ve also seen how quickly our workforce pivoted to being willing to try these things, to adopt them, to not resist the change that we can’t travel anymore, because nobody wanted to. So I think that has been quite an accelerated learning journey. And it’s also helped us connect what may have been seen before as like fringe experiments in things like augmented reality and social VR and virtual reality. And now, I’m very proud that two years after we really began that journey in earnest, these things are far more mainstream. They regular features of some of our programs and they’re extremely cherished because they are so experiential, they’re so immersive, they’re so human-centered. So I think our own learning curve is accelerated really sharply. And I’m proudest of all of the experimentation conditions that are behind it, constantly being sort of experience and data-driven in pivoting. And what I have seen as a facilitator is it doesn’t matter how digitally masterful you are, but you do need to have digital proficiency. If you can’t convey authentic vulnerability and connection across the ether, it doesn’t matter what kind of Wi-Fi signal everybody has, people won’t stick to the experience. And it has to be purpose driven. So I think being able to articulate the why we’re asking people to gather has become so much more important. And being much more discerning about what requires what kind of approach that some things shouldn’t be training. It shouldn’t be learning in the traditional sense of people even gathering. This is something you could do on your own. This is something that just needs to be a process that gets enforced. And another huge awakening for us, that’s been a personal revelation, is the power of what we call “edutainment.” This confluence, I think Disney coined the word, is the confluence of entertainment and education. That in up at pandemic, especially, you can show me something on PowerPoint and it can be vitally important, but I will probably forget it five minutes later, but I totally remember that plot twist from that Netflix series that I was binging last night that I never expected. And I remember that with stunning detail. So the fact that, as Grace mentioned, this is like how our cognitive functions work has, I think, liberated us, actually, to tap into the power of edutainment and do a bit more television, narrative, film, storytelling production, as a learning practice. We found that to be extremely effective and very rewarding. So I think my personal journey has really just been one of continual experimentation and self-discovery and the eagerness to just, again, always prioritize connection. And I mean genuine connection, not just broadband connection, both as the highest thing we’re trying to achieve.
Grace Chang:
There are so many things that you said that I love. One, the focus on experiential learning, using entertainment in effective way, for certain kinds of learning. We know that there’s so many ways to engage people. And I think the traditional approaches were realizing are not always the right-sized approach. So thinking about what is it we’re trying to do. And something else you said that I loved also was, do we actually need training for things? Because I think a lot of times we throw training at everything. And some things are not training, right? Or the kind of training is very specific what’s needed. So I think really being thoughtful about what actually requires training? How much training is too much? What is the appropriate approaches to make engaging training for that kind of training? There was something else you hit on about that got it like the idea of a safe space to be authentic, to be able to share. I think that’s a really important aspect, especially-
Vidya Krishnan:
Sanctuary.
Grace Chang:
Yeah, sanctuary. That was the word you used. I love that. Especially when we talk about doing something like hybrid. I think it’s especially important hybrid, because it’s already harder to make connections with people when they may seem very far away, you may not be physically close, they may not be people you hang out with in the office on a regular basis. So having a sanctuary where it’s a safe space, where there’s an understood safeness, where you can be vulnerable, learn certain things, not be scared to take risks, is really important. So I loved all those things that you brought in.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
It’s definitely all that excellent points. To circle back what we were talking about earlier with the rise in hybrid work, you both spoke so much on creating connection and how that leads to fulfillment. And I’d like to talk a little more about how employees, how can they work more efficiently together in a dispersed workforce? So what’s training’s role in that in helping to support and connect hybrid teams.
Vidya Krishnan:
As I said earlier, I really do think training and learning has a huge role here, because I think digital ways of work and effectiveness in digital ways of work, this is a skill, this is a power skill. It’s one of the ultimate power skills, not just success, not just strategic execution, but for engagement and wellbeing, and self care. So viewing it, first of all, as a skill to be learned, coached, taught, practiced, I think is the first sort of mindset shift. And then is the skill set, right? The will before the skill. And some of the things that we see in our Take Back Your Time program, it’s about learning how to minimize the overwhelm that can happen to you digitally. If you don’t configure your environment right. It’s about tools that are proven to get to inbox zero so that you don’t feel like you’re being attacked and that you don’t come to your computer feeling like there’s an onslaught waiting to consume you. It’s about learning how to you use things like inbuilt polling so that you’re getting all people to speak up, not just the extroverts, and that you’re making fact-based decisions about what the majority wants to prioritize and things like that. So there are these really important tools. And there are these really important features, some of which are in our software environ and our it environment. And for us, this Take Back Your Time focus has actually been a very powerful collaboration among learning, our hybrid real estate teams who are the ones charged with imagining and executing and implementing our future workspaces, and our IT digital workspace teams. Three entities that may not normally come together are completely coming together and co-creating this particular program because we think it touches on things like how do you check in with everyone and have the practice of my making sure that you’re building connection before you’re spewing content. How do you use these digital tools? How do you make sure that the time you spend with your teams is well spent and email-mitigated? So Cal Newport’s work, “A World Without Email,” is really influential here, too. He talks about like these special reverse meetings where you batch up everything you want to talk about with someone and wait until you have the one-on-one with them and then make a really deep connection and cover your list and avoid sending 15 emails. So I think for us, there are some really pragmatic ways of work that mark the difference between someone who’s thriving in that digital environment and feeling completely connected and someone who is feeling isolated, completely overwhelmed and cut off. So for us, this is sort of a vital power skill that we’re building and we’re going to keep building.
Grace Chang:
Yes, definitely is definitely a skill. And I think that mindset shift is so important to realize that it is something that you need to think about differently, that you can build skills around and you can use training to build skills around. At EY, we’re doing a lot globally and as well as in Americas with ways of working. We have a lot of training on what this means for our workforce. And also we start from the why, right? Why, from a brain perspective, doesn’t matter. Why, what are the things we need to think about? How does this translate into best practices? And then how do I practice those best practices to make them into habits that are sustained over time, that lead to better ways of working in this hybrid world? Whether we’re talking about hybrid training or whether we’re talking about hybrid meetings, there’s definitely a lot that comes from understanding the why that you can translate into practical tips. And I think Vidya mentioned a couple. There’s things like round-robins that you can do when you have a mixed group so that everyone gets to speak. There’s things like calling on remote people first to counteract that distance effect that you might have. So there’s a lot of things that come out of that. When you understand the underlying why it’s important, you can think about what are the things I need do on a regular basis that can improve how I work in this kind of environment.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
Definitely. So much has changed in the past two years. And seeing training’s role really evolve and [how it’s] really taking the lead in how organizations are adapting to all the changes that are [happening is great to see.] And so I’d really like us to of kind of shift our focus forward and into the future. And I’d love to hear what you both see in terms of the future work and where do see remote and hybrid work going and the way we deliver training in the future.
Grace Chang:
Well, I think it makes sense with the rise in remote and hybrid work that we’ve had during recent times, it definitely affects how we think about training as well. It’s that genie that’s out of the box. Once people have seen the flexibility, the options that remote and hybrid [work] brings, it bleeds into everything we do, including the training. And I think it be difficult to go back. And I think also there’s reasons not to go back as well. I think even before COVID, there were already some shifts towards virtual and hybrid. I think people were already starting to see some advantages. Obviously, because of COVID, that really accelerated this shift. One thing that I see a lot is a lot of big organizations have big hallmark learning events, right? I think there’s going to be even more of a shift. I think it’s already started. But I think there’s going to be even more of a shift from just big learning events to more just-in-time learning that can be immediately applied. And I think it’ll become even more common in the future. Another thing that I think we’ll need to think about a lot is the holistic picture, especially as we break learning up into more just-in-time. What is the training that people are getting? What is the coaching that they’re getting beyond the learning events? Are we checking and evaluating our progress? What reinforcement and sustainment plans are in place? So from a research perspective, I think those are the things in my head. Because we know that you need all that. It’s not just about a one-point-in-time training or anything like that. There’s so much else that goes into sustained learning.
Vidya Krishnan:
You said it earlier, too. It really is about learning our way to a better future. It’s very clear that we have to as a world, as a planet, as a society, as a community, as a company. I think the Edelman Trust Barometer report just came out literally a week ago. And no surprise, the trust that people have in most institutions is declining. And the trust that they’re putting in their companies is increasing. And more and more, they want their companies to take an active role in societal change and making the world better. And that is all about creating capability. So I think that is very, very, very clear that this priority is here to stay, that we have to learn our way to a better future. And then when you look at, okay, what does that mean to learn our way to the better future? Well, the World Economic Forum has defined its top 10 skills for 2025. If you go read that report, you’ll be, I think, a little shocked as the buzzwords that you hear about, you won’t see many of them there. You’ll see things like analytical thinking, active learning, complex problem solving, critical thinking, social influence, resilience, stress tolerant. It’s almost like the report is screaming that the number one skill is learning how to learn.
Grace Chang:
Yes.
Vidya Krishnan:
And that to me is not a coincidence, because, Erickson as a company, we you’re the global leader in 5G. 5G is revolutionizing, not just the world, but the way the world learns and should learn. Because we now have an opportunity to dismantle the digital divide like never before and make sure that we’re creating this global, virtual digital village. Because if we say it takes a village to raise a learner, can we reach more learners than ever before ones that we typically couldn’t reach by connecting schools, mapping school connectivity, like our partnership with UNICEF, Giga. This becomes, to me, vital for securing that we learn our way to a better future. And we’re leveraging the fact that 5G as a technology is actually both evolution and revolution, because on the one hand, every industry is going through a massive transformation, digital transformation and otherwise because of what this technology enables. And then 5G as a set of tools for learning designers to use to create things like AR and VR and immersive real-time bandwidth, intensive, experiential, holographic learning. It’s like we have a new quiver of arrows to shoot with terms of creating what makes impact and what hits the mark. So I think it redefines how we learn, where we learn, and why we learn. And I think this is essential for us to recognize. So I do think the future…. We always love to quote that the future belongs to the learners. And it is really about whoever is able to master hybrid learning will be able to outlearn the competition.
Grace Chang:
You know, Vidya, what you said about critical thinking and resilience and things like that being key things, learning to learn seems to be really critical. It doesn’t surprise me at all. We’re no longer in the kinds of fields where you stick in your little space and you just have to learn certain content. We have to be able to think critically. We have to be able to take in lots of data and somehow use that information. Working across lines is all the more important when you think about all the innovations that are out there. You have neuroscientists working with technology, folks working with so and so. It’s really that ability to collaborate and think critically and think about opportunities where you get those really great innovation. And so I think it makes a lot of sense. It’s learning to learn.
Sarah Gallo :
Yeah. I love that. Definitely important. I think going back to what you both said that even though hybrid learning is new, there’s still a lot of skills and best practices that go along with it and that can make it easier. What are some of those skills that training managers need in order to be an effective virtual facilitator? And how can they develop those skills?
Vidya Krishnan:
I think there are technology skills, there are kind of what I’ll call commercial or go-to market skills, and power skills that I think are necessary. It’s that combination. So technology skills, I think there’s… This is a particular environment. It’s a set of an environments. And you’ve got to learn to feel comfortable in it. The more digital it becomes, the more human it becomes. So the technology almost sort of disappears from view. It becomes the oxygen that’s like sustaining you, but you don’t see it anymore. You’re just seeing the connection. So I think there’s an ecosystem mastery that has to happen. That includes design tools and how you do entertainment and captivating graphics and mastering, things like recognizing the typical hybrid training. There’s actually two delivery streams happening, right? There’s whoever’s presenting at any given moment of talking. And then there’s a sort of parallel living entity in the chat. And you need to harness the dual power of those things, recognizing that the chat is like a superpower if you use it right. Because in another environment that was purely physical, people have been reluctant to raise their hand or would’ve gotten in trouble for talking to the person next to them or talking the teacher and disrupting the class. Through chat, you now have a sort of magical way to create connection with your classmates, to let the instructors or facilitators know that you need help, or you don’t understand something without sort of having to out yourself, as well as being able to connect with people that you’re meeting in breakouts and stuff like that in a way that you probably never would’ve done before. So I think one thing is just to recognize that it’s not just about the skills alone, but the fact that this is really a case where teamwork and partnership is a new leadership. That most of the time we think of a single, solo, brave facilitator sage on a stage. And this is much more now, I think, about pilot co-pilot, a guide at the side, and the necessary notion that much of these things actually require team work to implement. But I think there’s the technology skills. Then I think they’re the power skills of storytelling. Because again, as Grace said too, about being captivating. I need to captivate you. I need to make an emotional, authentic connection. That’s the way I commute with you in my skills of communication, my skills of business storytelling, my skills of partnering with you and making you feel that you are part of the, this is more of a workshop than like, again, a lecture which you could listen to on Netflix. And then I think really about those go-to market skills. How do I create the tension that makes your vulnerability channel you into learning? Which is really about sales, persuasion, how we mobilize an idea and get people to adopt it. So to me, I think, again, the demands on a would-be designer and facilitator are huge and they’re multifaceted. And they’re also kind of cool.
Grace Chang:
Yeah. No, definitely. I think all the things you talked about, a lot of them touched on some of the things we talked about earlier, the physical, the social, the cognitive, and how do you pull it all together, right? Through the storytelling, through the engagement, through all that. It is a skill set. Everything we’ve talked about here, it’s something you can develop and get better at. And I think as they’re doing all the things you talked about, Vidya, about thinking about the story, thinking about to draw people so there are co-pilots, right? I think when they’re thinking about it, they can do something…. A lot of times, designers will do something a little… In design thinking, when they’re designing something, they’ll develop personas, one-pagers on who this persona is, right? Who is this person who is learning? And you can do that for all the different personas that you think that you’re going to be tackling and you’re learning. And I imagine that for facilitators, that’s something that’s very useful to keep in mind. What are these people’s needs as you’re thinking about how to do this storytelling, as you’re thinking about how to draw them in. And just really doing what we talked about earlier, doing that human-centered thinking from the very start. And being very deliberate. I know all the facilitators I’ve ever worked with, great facilitators, they are prepared. They go in and they have notes about things. They don’t just go in completely blind. And I can even imagine that they already are putting in notes for different slides, for different things that they’re talking about, different things they’re doing to make sure inclusion happens, to make sure that they’re using certain skills to make sure that all these great things happen in the course.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
Definitely. Thank you for sharing. Those are all such great tips because virtual facilitation isn’t something that comes naturally to really anyone. So it’s great to know it’s a skill that can be learned. And that’s definitely something good to know. I’d love to go back to the diversity, equity and inclusion aspect of hybrid learning that you both touched on earlier. How can learning leaders ensure that hybrid training is inclusive and equitable for all learners?
Vidya Krishnan:
I think first of all, like Grace said, it has to be by design. It has to be on purpose. It has to require caring about the analytics to construct the personas that show both the cognitive, the neurodiversity, as well as every other dimension of diversity of the group and the cohort and how to make sure that great mind differently, and you engage them in doing that. So I think a huge part of it is the design. I think another big part of it is, again, the sanctuary of making this a safe space for us to practice, learn, and get it right, and be committed to those outcomes of, again, diversity in harmony for the purpose of a shared goal. And then I think digital tools, I always say, right? I mean, artificial intelligence combined with human intelligence is powerful because this is how you make sure that these digital tools really deliver equity. Because now voices can speak up. Some people feel more comfortable using the Chat and staying off camera and not speaking up verbally like we’re doing right now. And recognizing and creating mechanisms so that speak up and listen up can happen. and all ways creating the Breakouts to put people at ease, creating this authentic shared vulnerability that just makes people feel that this is a place where they can bring their whole selves to the learning. I think these are really in important principles. And one thing we see is now that we’ve been doing this for at least two years, we are amazed that the percentage of learning consumption has only increased year over year. So maybe before there were people who felt like learning was something that you did by traveling, going to class. And only a certain group of people were fortunate enough to do it. Only those people who lived in a certain geography or worked in a certain business function were the privileged few. And now we’re all in our pajamas, we’re all at home, we’re all one click away from these experiences. There’s a tremendous equity in that level playing field. There’s no more corner office. It’s like you can see my laundry and I can see yours. And I think that’s also the shared humanity. And not viewing that as a problem, but actually as a powerful reality that we share, I think has helped us make sure that our digital learning becomes more human and more inclusive and diverse.
Grace Chang:
Yeah, definitely agree. I think that it does bring so many great opportunities and level the playing field in many ways. Obviously, we have to make sure that people prepared for that playing field, that they have the right technology, that they have the know-how to do these things. But with things like Breakouts, we have so many opportunities with all this technology. We have to help build connections if we use the technology in a meaningful way. So for example, like with breakouts, such a useful tool to get people to work in small groups. But if done incorrectly, it can be uncomfortable for people. We know that people, oftentimes when they get thrown into Breakouts, they want to because they don’t know what to do. It’s really uncomfortable. So there’s all these things that we can do to make for a better experience for people in this hybrid environment. We can also help them build peer connections outside of the classroom, too. There’s a lot of peer learning that… There’s a lot of research showing just how valuable peer learning is. Not just from a learning perspective, but also a feeling-connected perspective, being able to share ideas with your peers. And that’s something that in person [learners] and people who are remote can do, they can all go to this one forum. I think a lot of what we’re saying here comes back to this one, basic idea, one thought that we have, definitely when thinking about out hybrid learning, is if it’s not something that will work for all the different people involved, all the personas, don’t do it. If it’s going to be something that excludes some group, that some group can’t participate fully in, don’t do it. There are other better ways. Because you are going to have a problem. You’re not going to have good learning or good experience when something like that happens.
Sarah Gallo :
Right. Definitely a lot of opportunity in terms of delivering that equitable and inclusive learning. So I’m excited to see where it goes. All right. And with that, Grace, Vidya, are there any other key takeaways you’d like to leave our listeners with?
Grace Chang:
I think we’ve covered all the key takeaways at some point or other. I think being very deliberate is probably one of the biggest key takeaways, and being human-centered, in my mind. Because I think when you have both, when you are human-centered, thinking about your learners, your facilitators, all of that, and the design and delivery, you can really build something that’s effective and a wonderful experience. And then obviously that does take planning, it takes work, but we do know that it’s possible very possible.
Vidya Krishnan:
I go back to we do have to learn our way to a better future, now more than ever. It’s very clear that future belongs to the learners. And therefore hybrid learning is a necessary ingredient, core ingredient to make the future of work, actually work for everyone in an equitable empowering way. So it requires and deserves, I think, every bit of attention and prioritization we can give it. And the companies that fail to invest are probably likely planning to fail. And none of us intend to be those companies. It’s too important to our future.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
That’s very well said. On that note, Vidya, Grace, thank you both so much for speaking with us today on this very important topic. How can our listeners get in touch with you after today’s episode if they like to reach out?
Grace Chang:
I think for me, the best way is probably through LinkedIn or sending me a message. Don’t just friend request me. Because what happens is I get a lot of people trying to sell me things. So if I don’t know why you’re reaching out, I may not respond. But if someone emails me, I will definitely respond to them when they send that request.
Vidya Krishnan:
I think for me, LinkedIn or vidya.christian@erickson.com. And we hope a lot of you will go to erickson.com and read some of our blogs on this topic, is something we’re very passionate about. And we look forward to connecting with everyone.
Sarah Gallo :
Very cool. For more insights on hybrid learning, and to view the highlights from today’s episode in animation, visit trainingindustry.com/trainingindustrypodcast.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:
As always, don’t forget to rate and review us on your favorite podcast app.
Sarah Gallo :
Until next time.
Speaker:
If you have feedback about this episode or would like to suggest a topic for a future program, email us at info@trainingindustry.com or use the contact us page trainingindustry.com. Thanks for listening to the Training Industry Podcast.
