Digital transformation is disrupting the way we work and learn, and many companies are struggling to keep pace. The digital skills gap continues to widen, and learning and development (L&D) leaders are tasked with delivering innovative programs and solutions that can help them navigate digital disruption and thrive in the future.
In this episode of The Business of Learning, we spoke with Dr. Kim Tran, vice president and head of talent management at Allstate, and Stephanie L. Woerner, principal research scientist and director of MIT’s Center for Information Systems Research, to learn more about how training and development can support organizations in the age of digital transformation.
Listen now for insights on:
- How to determine your organization’s digital fluency.
- How artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning (ML) will continue to shape the future of work.
- The digital skills today’s employees need, and how training can help develop them.
Listen now:
Additional Resources:
- Article: A Digital Transformation Action Plan for Learning Leaders
- Report: The State of the Learning Technologies Market
- Article: 4 Steps to Building Data Literacy in Your Organization
Cybersecurity training is essential in the age of digital transformation. Download the e-book below to learn more:
The transcript for this episode follows:
Speaker 1:
Welcome to The Business of Learning, the learning leader’s podcast from Training Industry.
Michelle:
Hi! Welcome back to The Business of Learning. I’m Michelle Eggleston Schwartz, editor in chief at Training Industry, here with my co-host, Sarah Gallo, a senior editor.
Sarah:
Welcome back! This episode of The Business of Learning is brought to us by Training Industry Research.
[Ad]:
As a training professional, your job is to effectively manage the business of learning. You probably listen to this podcast to gain insights on L&D trends being used by some of the most innovative thought leaders in our market. But did you know that Training Industry also provides data driven analysis and best practices through our premium research reports? Our entire catalog … including reports on topics such as deconstructing 70-20-10, women’s access to leadership development, learner preferences, and the state of the training market, just to name a few … can be found at trainingindustry.com/shopresearch. New insights create new ways for L&D to do business. Let Training Industry research Reports assist you in taking your learning initiatives to new heights. Go to trainingindustry.com/shopresearch to view our entire catalog.
Sarah:
Today, digital transformation is a key challenge for businesses worldwide across nearly all industries. But the concept and challenge of digital disruption isn’t new. As new technologies have emerged and evolved over the years, companies have had to adapt to keep pace with market shifts. But the COVID-19 pandemic and the resulting shift to remote and hybrid work has made this challenge of digital transformation even more, well, challenging. And as with any business shift, learning leaders are often tasked with supporting companies through digital disruption and into the future. So today, we’re speaking with Kim Tran, vice president and head of talent management at Allstate, and Stephanie Woerner, principal research scientist of MIT’s Center for Information Systems Research, to learn more about how learning and development can support companies in the age of digital transformation. Stephanie and Kim, welcome to the podcast.
Stephanie:
Thank you for inviting us!
Kim:
Yes! Happy to be here!
Michelle:
Yes, welcome to the podcast. We’re excited to have you here today. As Sarah just mentioned, digital transformation is impacting nearly all businesses all over the world. Can you share your thoughts on what factors have led to this digital transformation?
Stephanie:
So it’s a factor of digital technologies. Think about all of those technologies that are out in the consumer world, like social media. And then you also have internet of things inside the B2B businesses, and just this explosion of what we call digital technologies. And then at the same time, digital is changing customer expectations for what they want from a company. So oftentimes, they don’t want to just buy a product, they want a solution, or they want to figure out what’s that offering that’s going to solve their problems. That same digital technology is also opening up the boundaries of the firm, so that you end up with firms that are not nearly as closed off. They’re operating more in ecosystems and less in value chains.
Kim:
Yeah, I love that. Thank you, Stephanie. And I would also add, too, that in my line of work … as I think about what does this mean in terms of impacting our talent strategy and how we recruit and hire top talent … I see the pandemic created this almost double disruption scenario where folks have to adjust to this rapid use of digital solutions that Stephanie just tapped into and the COVID pandemic. And so when the world shifted to now remote and hybrid working and learning overnight, it then also really accelerated this human digital transformation that has now permanently changed how we think about work and education and learning. It’s been really, really fascinating to see.
Sarah:
Perfect. It’s definitely changing pretty much everything. I’d love if we could dive in a little bit more into that. How is digital transformation really transforming how we work, and also how we grow and develop talent?
Kim:
So recently this year, Salesforce, they did this amazing study for their 2022 Global Digital Skills Index. And in it, they found that 76% of workers do not feel prepared for working in a digital-first world. So this is where someone that leads talent management … This is where I get really jazzed up because there’s such a huge opportunity, especially as most companies are facing headcount and cost challenges. We are also facing tight labor markets, and that’s across industries. And so what we’re really seeing now is companies are entering probably the most radical redesign of talent practices in 30 years. And this is really exciting for me because there’s just no better time right now than to double down on a skills-based workforce design and planning, specifically focused on digital skills.
And so what that’s doing, this digital transformation, digital disruption, is changing the way that we even define our operating models and job architectures. It’s really forcing companies to, “How do you design personalized upskilling approaches?” And then at the foundation of that, it’s really to optimize the employee experience. So for me, together, all of these accomplishments really feeds into a company’s future hiring practices. It helps us to really define how we design career-pathing. And then be able to also provide the foundational data to steer investments in learning and development just to help enable a more flexible workforce at our fingertips. Stephanie, what are your thoughts here?
Stephanie:
Well, when we start to think about how employees are dealing with this digital transformation, I think that there are a couple of things that are happening. One is when we talk about the digital transformation, we’re talking about companies doing two things simultaneously. They’re innovating, becoming more efficient, pulling out costs. And at the same time, they’re focusing on the customer. So think about what that means for the kinds of talent that you have to have and the kinds of training that are going to be part of your ongoing work. Employees are having to deal more with automation. They’re having to think about what’s the single best way to do something and then figure out how to reuse that over and over again. And then at the same time, they’re having to really bring the customer voice in. This is all part of that transformation, and it’s all around new ways of working.
That is a key part of digital transformation, is bringing in these new ways of working and then disseminating them throughout the whole entire company. This is around using data, well, becoming more evidence-based in your decision making, and iterating. So rather than doing big bang projects, you iterate, you talk to the customer, you see what happens. It’s a whole different set of skills for employees and they have to learn. They need training to go and get there. So when we talk about what it takes, people doing a digital transformation, it’s not all about the technology. The people are so important, and you’re not going to get those performance hikes that Kim talked about without training your people.
Kim:
Oh, that’s so accurate. And one of the things, too, I love what you said in terms of this is a complete shift in the ways that we work, and the ways that we work are going to influence what skills we need today and what skills we need in the future. And then all of that drives our talent ecosystem decisions around what skills we build by borrow or use AI intelligence for, so it’s such a deeply interconnected ecosystem. And I love what you said, Stephanie. It’s not just about the technology. The technology is the enabler, but not the solution.
Stephanie:
Exactly right. Yes. Any company that is just putting the technology in and not really changing the way that they work, and not thinking about how do they put together, integrate all of their customer data so that they can make life easier for their employees, is really going to be left behind.
Michelle:
Definitely. It really is a new world of work. And to help navigate these changes, it makes sense that employees need training and development to adjust. Kim, as you noted, employees are really unprepared for this digitally first work environment. What are those skills that employees need to keep pace with digital transformation?
Stephanie:
I’ll start on the broad skills and then I think, Kim, because she’s out there in the trenches, she can really elaborate on that. But I think first and foremost there is a data literacy. You have to know how to ask good questions, where to find the data that is going to be part of that, and then bring that to bear in terms of your decision making. So moving from, say, a gut-based type of, “Oh, this is my experience,” to thinking about asking questions in a more hypothesis type-based way. So saying, “Here’s what I think is going to happen. Here’s my hypothesis. Here’s the data that I’m going to get. Here’s the experiment I’m going to run.” So it’s this really different way of thinking about data. That’s one of them.
A second is looking at how technology … Can you automate what is kind of the rotework and get that off people’s plates so that they can do, really, the more value-added kind of work that are not going to be automated. So it’s use of data, thinking about where you can automate, and then, again, this bit about bringing in that customer voice and having that be part of your teams. Teams are more cross-functional, so you need to be able to know how to work not just with people that you’ve worked with in the past, but your teams are going to be … You’re going to have someone from finance, you’ll have someone from risk, and you’re going to have someone from marketing as part of a team creating an offering.
And then I think the last thing that I would mention is getting used to the fact that for many of these projects, you as a firm and you as an employee in the firm, you’re not going to be able to do it all. And this is what digital has really offered, which is there are companies out there that have services, that have products that you can plug and play into your own products, to really create that solution for your customer. So those are some of the skills that I think that you need to have.
Kim:
Yeah, I completely agree with Stephanie. In terms of how we do this in the trenches, as she says, I’ll give an example of how Allstate is looking at this. We’re on this journey to really pursue our transformative growth plan over multi-years, and really being able to focus on transforming our own workforce by building the digital ensure of the future, so that is our strategic imperative. And last year, in 2021, Allstate introduced this concept of six core capabilities that helped us really think about how do we succeed today and in the future, and what are the skills that we need in order to be that digital insurer of the future? And so we define capabilities … and I know there are multiple definitions of this in the field right now … but how we define capabilities is essentially a cluster of related skills, competencies and personal attributes that allows a person and organization to succeed in the future.
And so we take these core capabilities and we develop them using both internal and external research as a way to provide how do we gauge that we’re actually meeting and predicting current and future customer needs? Each of those capabilities includes in-demand skills that are really hot in the market right now or perhaps really difficult to source for, and that are also relevant at Allstate, as well as within the marketplace. So for us, one of the six core capabilities is what does it mean to have a digital mindset? What does it mean to be digitally affluent? And for us, this means that we’re thinking critically about how to use appropriate data and analytics to build our business. We embrace new technology and are savvy about how we actually apply it. And so the trending skills for this capability that we see based on research, we’re focused on upscaling our entire workforce in six different areas.
The first is data management and predictive analytics, technology use and general digital literacy, technology monitoring and controls, technology design and programming, product design and engineering, and then leading digital transformations. And across these six different areas, we also rank folks in three proficiency levels. So are you growth opportunity, intermediate, and advanced? We do this through our online partnership with Degreed to do a lot of the curated on-demand learning, and then we also create learning pathways that are very specific. So you’re learning this content, but then obviously within learning and development, as you all know, there’s usually a massive gap between knowing and doing. Just because you take a course, does it mean you actually know how to do it?
So then we also design learning opportunities that allow that skill to be put into practice, whether that’s through case studies, through peer-to-peer learning, through other vendor partnerships such as edX, where people can actually practice and apply those concepts. And then they do a self rating, as well as their manager rates them too, just so that we can have that skills validation. So lots and lots of wonderful things that we’re doing in this space right now to make sure that we’re upskilling in the right areas, and also that we’re validating those skills are being matched and used appropriately.
Stephanie:
This thought sounds very familiar. I’ve done work on the digital savviness of boards and the digital savviness of the C-suite. And when Kim is talking about this digital mindset … we’ve called it digital savviness … but it’s really about knowing what technology can do for your company, having this ability to experiment, and know when to commit after you’ve done that experiment. But you have to do it at enterprise scale, which is why you have a lot of employees who know what to do with their smartphone and they know about those consumer technologies, but enterprises are really different. I mean, the scale that they have got to deal with these technologies, and the kinds of activities that they’re doing, is just so big that that’s also an important part of digital savviness.
Sarah:
Certainly. It’s definitely not easy. And thanks for sharing, Kim. It’s good to hear kind of what these processes look like in the trenches, so to speak, at real companies. And I know our listeners are always interested to hear those real-world scenarios as well. I want to touch on another important factor here, which is really kind of doing your pre-work or homework, so to speak. How can learning leaders determine their workforce’s digital fluency or digital savviness so that they can really deliver training programs that fill those skills gaps and address real business needs?
Stephanie:
Well, there’s always getting out and talking and convening focus groups and doing things like that, but that is certainly not systematic and not going to go across the whole company. So I think that one of the big challenges here is how do you determine the whole company, everybody at different levels? And I think that Kim has talked about this, in terms of classifying having these six core capabilities, because you’re not trying to go and assess everyone on 94 [capabilities]. That’s a lot. But six core capabilities … You can start to do an assessment, but it’s really going to have to cascade down.
And I think one of the most important things that you’re going to have with these digital transformations and these new types of trainings is your CEO, your C-suite. They’re going to have to buy into it, also. And they have to also show and be kind of a leader in terms, and show that they are open to this notion of a digital mindset and digital savviness, we find one of the biggest attributes of a successful digital transformation is that leaders move from a “command and control” to a “coach and communicate.” And I think that that coaching and communicating is where you start to figure out where your people are. Our research has never done anything really systematically at all levels, but I bet that Kim has some ideas about that.
Kim:
Yeah. My guidance for folks who are really thinking about how do you tie this all together and look at the broader ecosystem … My number one advice is always really make sure that you have a clear understanding of what your strategic objectives are for the organization. Folks call this OKRs, KPIs. Whatever it is, what is the business objective? And then make sure that you are tying whatever programs and initiatives, whether it’s focus groups that Stephanie was talking about, make sure that you’re tying all of that to connect and directly linked to supporting your business objectives. And so with the example at Allstate being us pursuing our transformative growth plan by being the digital insurer of the future, when we looked at that, we said, “What are the critical skills and core capabilities that we need the entire organization to be able to scale up on?”
I talked about one of them, which was a digital mindset out of the six, but the other ones were change readiness and agility, being customer-centric, being future-oriented, being people-focused and being results-driven. And so what my team gets to do then is anchor all of our programs and strategies in our outcomes around how do we design these core capabilities, and then enable our entire workforce to have these skills at varying levels so that we can all support and accomplish our business objectives at large. The fun work that I get to do is also design these programs and think more holistically in terms of how do you design a talent marketplace that actually allows … I look at my job as not only designing programs to upscale and re-skill our workforce, but then to also intentionally connect their skills to job opportunities across the organization. And so building a strong talent marketplace that not only accurately matches their skills to other job opportunities, but then allows them to move around within the organization.
And I love what Stephanie said because it really requires strong leadership support and buy-in, and almost this mindset shift of having a person come in who is so talented. And as a manager coaching that person, of course, if they’re a top performer, I’m going to want to keep them. I don’t want to share them with other people. But if their goals don’t align with, perhaps, what we’re doing on our team, then I need to do the right thing and really think about, “This talent and their skill set is for the enterprise,” and my job is to coach them and get them to where they want to go versus hoarding that talent. And that is a significant mindset shift that we’re having to address as well.
Michelle:
Definitely. That’s such a great point because going back to what you said about alignment, strategic alignment, is such an important point when identifying those skills gaps and moving forward to close them. So when considering how training can help to fill these digital skills gaps, what do those learning solutions look like? How can other companies do this more effectively?
Kim:
The exciting work that I get to think about and am starting to design right now is really leveraging AI skills intelligence platforms. I think of it in six core skills capabilities, ways, in terms of how do we bring in and leverage AI to build a skills and capabilities framework that then accelerates how we identify and match skills to opportunities, and then how we enhance that internal mobility for our employees so that they can stay engaged. They’re constantly growing and really stretching themselves to get the careers that they want. And the ultimate goal for us is to design a place that talent loves. We’re, right now, in the midst of looking at artificial intelligence platforms and machine learning to think about what are our capabilities. And a couple of really great ones that are in the market right now, if folks want to nerd out on this, is we’re looking at Sky High, Fuel50, Glow, Eightfold. AI. All of these platforms are really thinking about how do we bring in both internal and external benchmark data on designing skills portfolios, designing skills taxonomies, and the relationship between skills.
So being able to identify adjacent skills and matching folks with untraditional career paths, which is something that is really fascinating. And so I’m looking at this to say, “How do we bring in and partner with an AI-based platform to help us think through this?” And partnering very close with our talent acquisitions team, so there’s going to be very close partnerships here. And then designing that skills framework for folks, and then being able to then match on the backend our LMS or LXP experience to, “Here are your skills profile. Here are the skills that you have. Here are the skills that you don’t have, and here’s all of the learning and development and resources,” and even matching you with mentors who show that they have strong strength in these skills so that you can go and expand your network.
So creating that holistic view, but using AI intelligence to help us quickly identify what those skills are, to use predictive analytics to say “Where could this person move in the future?” And most importantly, de-biasing a lot of our processes in terms of how we think about succession planning and talent reviews, to make sure that we have diverse slate of candidates as we’re looking not only within our vertical or our department, but across the organization. And tapping untraditional talent in other parts of the organization and then other regions, as well, as we think about those adjacent skills.
Stephanie:
And probably, you’re also looking outside of the enterprise, also, aren’t you?
Kim:
Yeah!
Stephanie:
I mean, that sounds very cool. I don’t know a lot about this particular area of AI and talent, but it seems like there’s a lot of opportunity there.
Kim:
There is so much opportunity. And to your point, there’s a lot emerging research around how do you transition to a skills-based organization, which basically just means that we’re focusing less on recruiting and promoting for title and tenure, and shifting our focus to hiring and promoting for skills and capabilities. And the excitement for me is that the traditional way that folks recruit is really around do you have a four year degree education? And that, in and of itself, as a requirement already takes out a lot of the talented workforce or pool that can actually do this work, but perhaps they didn’t have the money or the means to get a four-year education. And unfortunately, it’s highly correlated with underrepresented groups of minorities, right?
So how do we even reimagine how we design job descriptions? Do you really need a four-year degree on this or should you be designing the work to be around skills and capabilities that could be also leveraged through certification programs, apprenticeships, trades, all of those elements. Other non-traditional ways to career-pathing other than outside of that four-year degree. I’m looking at that very closely and really trying to think about how do we create equitable access to opportunity and career paths and just resources that go beyond that traditional perspective.
Michelle:
Definitely. It’s certainly clear that artificial intelligence and machine learning are at the forefront of digital transformation for sure. Kind of with that, Kim, I’d be interested to hear. Do you suspect that automation will make certain jobs obsolete in the future, or will it create new opportunities for employees?
Kim:
Yeah, I definitely think … Can I say both? I think it’s not an “either or,” I think it’s an “and.” And so really, when we think about what that’s going to lead to, what we know is that there is so much demand for new roles that’s also emerging across different industries. And the roles are, to me, most likely to be sunset or displaced over the next couple of years really are more of what Stephanie referred to at the beginning, as those rote skills. It could be bookkeeping, payroll clerks, data entry, more of those administrative things, assembly or even factory workers, or administrative tasks. And then what we’re seeing is rules that are expected to really spike up our areas around data analysis scientists, AI, machine learning, robotics, cloud, software and application developers, and then digital transformation specialists. So we’re seeing a huge trend in those as hot jobs in the market.
And newer, emerging roles also include process automation specialists, information security analysts, and then internet of all things specialists, so a lot in that digital space. And companies will need employees who can both have the technical, digital skills to work alongside these new technologies. And also the softer, what I call, business skills to be able to co-create and collaborate in these new digitalized workspaces, such as emotional intelligence, problem solving, critical thinking, systems thinking, and empathy. So to me, it’s not either, but it’s a combination of both. And I’m sure Stephanie has lots to say on this as well.
Stephanie:
That is exactly what we see is that there are jobs that just lend themselves to being automated, and so you can digitize them, you can automate them. But then, the really great companies are looking at their talent and saying, “If we give them new kinds of training, we can move them into other jobs, where we have need, that are not as likely to be automated,” and there’s more value to be created and captured at that same time. What you’re trying to do is digitize that rotework because generally, it is rather boring work. And then, training your employees to become more improvisational to figure out how to solve problems. I mean, really, I think one of the things that we’re seeing in the digital economy is the problems that you’re going to see are not going to be the same ones day after day.
They’re going to be different problems that come at you. And what you want to do is get your people to know, “Well, where’s the information in the system so that I can tap into it? But then also, do I know enough about the company, the enterprise itself, so that I can make a decision and not get the problem stuck at my desk? So it’s that I really do believe it is both, and it is going to be incumbent upon companies to figure out how do they get the best out of their employees, how do they train them so that they become what we call empowered problem solvers, empowered decision makers, and not what we call passive recipients of, “Well, I have this technology. I know what to do and I’m just going to do the same thing over and over again.” You want to really have them be able to solve a whole variety of problems and work on a whole variety of projects.
Kim:
Yeah. And if I can add to that, I think the best advice I could give anyone as their thinking through this journey for themselves and their organizations … To me, one of the most critical skills that we can empower … I like that word, so I’m going to use that, Stephanie … empower our workforce right now, is learning agility. The ability to be able to learn quickly, to use new information and data to continuously add on or shift or pivot what you are already working on and to problem solve. So to me, learning agility is one of the most critical skills. Especially just with the acceleration of how much change and new information and new technology and data that we’re getting, we’re not going to be able to know it all, right? So how do you shift from being know-it-alls to learn-it-alls and helping your organization do that, and empowering them to continuously learn so that they can do kind of that higher level work, and lead the machine learning and all of that to that administrative or more data analysis work?
Stephanie:
That rapid learning. What we’ve called it, rapid learning, is one of the 10 core capabilities that we find that companies have to develop if they’re going to become what we call “future ready” and really ready to operate in that digital economy. Our research shows that that is really one of the most important things that you have to do.
Sarah:
Yeah. It’s definitely vital for companies today. I love how you mentioned shifting from know-it-alls to learn-it-alls. I like that. Well, we’ve covered a lot of ground today on what’s really such a big topic to address. Are there any final takeaways that you’d like to leave our listeners with?
Stephanie:
I’m going to say that I think one thing that I did not mention early on is that curiosity. If you can develop your curiosity, and then follow that curiosity so that you’re continually learning, that’s going to be one of the things that is going to help you succeed and help you really advance your career. And then also, I think that for the people in Kim’s position, figuring out how do you get people to be more curious, and then follow up on that, is really one of the key skills that I think that companies have to develop. And then, this agility is so important. As I said, when I think about a digital transformation, I think about this idea that you’re simultaneously focused inward on costs and processes and outward in terms of customers. So yes, you have to be agile. Those are the two things that I would say really focus on: curiosity and agility.
Kim:
I love that. Those are actually also my core guiding principles, Stephanie, so I’m right there with you. And then I would also encourage anyone who is in a position that is leading or supporting the talent within their organization to really start with a self-audit. Where are we today in terms of how mature are we in our ability to accurately identify what skills are needed for today? What skills are needed for tomorrow? Do a data audit in terms of how is our talent moving around today. Where are they moving? What skills are needed? All of those things to really understand what is your talent and skills makeup that you have today.
And then as you look at, “What is our strategy in the next two to three years,” and then, “How are we going to get there? Do we have the skills and capabilities to get there? And if not, then what types of programs and initiatives do we need to design to help us close that gap and get us to where we need to get going quickly?” … A big part of that is going to be hopefully with the support of AI intelligence technology to help you.
And what I love that Stephanie said earlier is it’s not about adding more and more technology … because I know most of us don’t even have the budget for these things … but how do we actually integrate the existing systems and processes to make sure that it’s really streamlined, that it’s frictionless, and that our employees are really clear about how they can be successful in our organization and they don’t have to go to different systems and tools and things like that to just focus on their career. So I think that is a huge element for all of the folks that are leading this work within their organization.
Michelle:
Excellent. Those are such good points. How can our listeners get in touch with you after the episode if they’d like to reach out?
Stephanie:
So I am at the MIT Center for Information Systems Research, and our website is cisr.mit.edu. And then, my email is my last name, Woerner, woerner.mit.edu.
Kim:
And for me, you can find me on LinkedIn. Just look under KimLoan Tran. And then my email is kimloan.tran@allstate.com.
Stephanie:
I also am on LinkedIn. And thank goodness with my last name being so unusual, it’s typically not hard to find me.
Sarah:
To learn more about digital transformation and digital skills training, and to view this episode in animation, check out the show notes for this episode at trainingindustry.com/trainingindustrypodcast.
Michelle:
And if you enjoyed this episode, let us know. Leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. Until next time!
Speaker 1:
If you have feedback about this episode or would like to suggest a topic for a future program, email us at info@trainingindustry.com, or use the Contact Us page at trainingindustry.com. Thanks for listening to the Training Industry Podcast.
